Project Reality Forums

- I did search, apologies if I this has been suggested, I’m amazed it hasn’t. -

OK it’s very simple…

You can only ever spawn at the main base.

No rally points, no squad leader spawn, no APC spawn.

I think this will increase tactics and teamwork massively.
A few examples:
Are you gonna go running off alone.. leaving your medics and support fire?
Squad Leaders are going to have to bunker down and wait for reinforcements, after taking heavy losses.
The team will have to work together to get the troops massed for an assault, squads will have to work together, liaise more.
Transport to the front lines will become very important.

The rational
Rather than trying to simulate a full scale battle, through the spawn system, why not simulate a small skirmish between two mech. infantry ‘sections’, i.e the PR battle (round) is a small slice of a larger battle we can’t see. If you get my meaning. The spawn system is usually justified as representing many more soldiers than can actually be generated in the BF engine. i.e. a 64 player server represents maybe a 4,000 troop battle. A 32 player server a 2,000 troop battle. (or whatever numbers you want to replace these with.)

Why not have it (on a 64 server) that the battle is between those 64 only. When someone is killed, Command sends reinforcements which arrive at the main base. (i.e. spawn)

This kind of shift would have to be at the core of the Mod.. maps would have to be built with this in mind. However many of the present maps would work and all with a few tweaks.

I just think it would fit in with the mod. If you want to spawn, jump straight into battle over and over again I would think there are other mods / games that might suit better. I really hate spawning into a fire fight, having to hit the deck and unload my clip before I’m even sure what the threat is. And yes I know I have to option of spawning else where, but what do you do when the SL is screaming for help! At present spawning into a fire fight is just part of the game I’d like to see removed.

What do you think, hate it? love it? is it practical?

edit: maybe it could be a new scenario or game mode.

To put it simply ... as a new gamemode ... I love it.
Makes life a lot more valuable, and support roles such as medics, transport, a lot more key to winning a battle.

On thinking a wee bit more about this.

It would be a shame to see some of the present tactics associated with rally points and SL spawning be lost.

So i suggest this as a Scenario or the basis of a new Game Mode.

Not a change to the main game.

edit: typo

Engineer wrote:Because we arent able to communicate well with other squads, finding a lift to your SL's position might be very hard thing to do in big maps.
I think the only reason you can spawn at SL now is the teamwork aspect, and it works.

I hear you. I think with the new commander changes that role will be far less vacant than it has been. So i hope comms. will be getting better. And yes tweaking to maps and other aspects will have to be made. Spawning on the SL does help teamwork, but i think medics, ammo and covering fire should be the 'new' teamwork drivers for squads in the future. (but maybe that is not enough?)

I like the idea, but you will always have idiots driving away alone in a car, or ppl that fly around with the bh never landing to drop ppl of, and when they land the jump out and leave the chopper. They never return for more ppl

I really like the idea

Spaz wrote:I like the idea, but you will always have idiots driving away alone in a car, or ppl that fly around with the bh never landing to drop ppl of, and when they land the jump out and leave the chopper. They never return for more ppl

these people usually uninstall after 1 week or learn not to

I completely agree 100%. Even though i really understand the rational for the Rally points and appreciate the work the devs put into them, I have to say that I hate the current way that rally points (and for that matter squad leader spawning) works.

Its not a problem when you only have a one or two squads on a team really utilizing them, but when you have most of the opposing team actually using them and playing the 'way its meant to,' you just end up getting screwed over by wave after wave of soldiers spawning from a rally point just over a hill or dune. Its not only unrealistic but extremely cheesy.

I love PR but I hate the way spawning is implemented. If you attack a position and successfully wipe out all the enemies in the area, you should have a few minutes to either set up a defense at the area, or prepare for another offensive. You should not be immedately attacked when the first enemies you killed respawn 100m away at the rally point. It completely kills any sense of accomplishment and tactics.

The way it is set up currently, if 2 squads enter a firefight, the one that will win and move on is the one that has the closest rally point. No rally point in the area? too bad! you lose.

I would love nothing more to be only able to spawn at the main bases. It would not only encourage players to stick with their squad (because you would be almost useless on your own, and because you dont want to get stranded out in the middle of nowhere), but it would stress defense and squad strategy tenfold.

I feel that this would only increase the realism, and ulitmatly make for a much more sastisfying round after its all over.
And on a side note, yes you will get smacktards who will try and ruin your time, its inevitable in any online game you play. But said smacktards are going to be much less willing to 'tard around' if they can't respawn anywhere close to the action, and like grease monkey said, will quit playing after a week or so.

One problem with spawning at main base would be regrouping with squads. If half of your squad spawns in main base, and the other half continues capturing a remote flag, you have a problem. Hell, what if one person spawns back in main base? Surely, the squad doesn't have to pull all the way back to get them, especially if pulling back can be dangerous, requiring them to push through enemy squads. The one person might have problems linking up with their squad, because the very limited transportation assets are going to be used by other people wanting to link up with THEIR squads.

Such a system would probably force you to leave your squad on death, and then try to form new squads with people who spawned back. A recipe for decreasing teamwork in pub servers, if you ask me.

i think a reduction of spwn points would be good for a new/different game mode BECUASE OF THE SMALL SIZE OF PRESENT MAPS..

However, due to squads being 2 members to small (should be 8 rather than 6) and no easy way for squad leaders to communicate, and even then, 12 players moving around the average map have:

a) - too little room to manovour, cant really flank or avoid contact.

b) - are a massive target due to the above, resulting in excessive DEATH where as 6 players, can often slip through and around the small map becuase: - not many for a start AND their SL can direct them precisely how to keep quiet.


Overall this is a very good idea IF:

Maps are extremely well desgined, due to the squad size and numerous other unsolveable problems, this idea REALIES more than anything on map design.
Namely; a semi perfect balance of open ground and cover.
Why:
- Maps that are too big, result in little combat or highly predictable combat ude to massive distnaces required to walk/go, players will meet a similar locations if designers are not carefull.
- Maps that have to much open ground, result in players that camp at distances or just hunker down behind what little cover, masacaring those players who try and attack, forced too much open ground becuase they have no choise.
- Maps that have to much cover (buidlings, woods ext.), result in CLOSE COMBAT which in PR is very very unrealistic due to prone spammers, no leaning, jumping and no climbing ability = CLOSE COMBAT IS BASED MORE ON LUCK THAT LONG RANGE ENGAGEMENTs.

All these things can happen on present maps, but spwning allows players attempt different attacks, manouvours quickly and easily - failure is acceptable to a certain degree WHERE AS in this game mode, failure could results in exsessive bordom becuase even the most tactical players make mistakes, and the ease at which they can change their play to solve avoid this problems could and will be seriously impared, but as i said, map design can help remove the affect luck has on combat!
And LUCK is not what will make this type of game fun.

So, some seriously clever map design will be needed i think.

True about the small maps and 0.6. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how the new map sizes and spawning mechanics work out.

daranz wrote:One problem with spawning at main base would be regrouping with squads. If half of your squad spawns in main base, and the other half continues capturing a remote flag, you have a problem. Hell, what if one person spawns back in main base? Surely, the squad doesn't have to pull all the way back to get them, especially if pulling back can be dangerous, requiring them to push through enemy squads. The one person might have problems linking up with their squad, because the very limited transportation assets are going to be used by other people wanting to link up with THEIR squads.

These are the issues that Squad Leaders would be facing. Hence tactics etc will be heightened. I’ll take your comments as support for the idea.

daranz wrote:Such a system would probably force you to leave your squad on death, and then try to form new squads with people who spawned back. A recipe for decreasing teamwork in pub servers, if you ask me.

Why, this happens the whole time to me in 0.5, (SL get revived when you dont expect it, for example) i just make my way to the squads position.
I'd expect this sort of GamePlay/Mode to generate dedicated transport squads or troops; BHs and APCs shutteling troops to the front. I've always enjoyed this role.

no.

I'd like to see a version of Al Basrah with troop transport type trucks and they can only spawn at suburbs/palace. Would make the insurgents actually ambush the USMC so they don't die and it'd also give a VERY good incentive to destroy the bridges.

Soulis6 wrote:I completely agree 100%. Even though i really understand the rational for the Rally points and appreciate the work the devs put into them, I have to say that I hate the current way that rally points (and for that matter squad leader spawning) works.

Its not a problem when you only have a one or two squads on a team really utilizing them, but when you have most of the opposing team actually using them and playing the 'way its meant to,' you just end up getting screwed over by wave after wave of soldiers spawning from a rally point just over a hill or dune. Its not only unrealistic but extremely cheesy.

I love PR but I hate the way spawning is implemented. If you attack a position and successfully wipe out all the enemies in the area, you should have a few minutes to either set up a defense at the area, or prepare for another offensive. You should not be immedately attacked when the first enemies you killed respawn 100m away at the rally point. It completely kills any sense of accomplishment and tactics.

The way it is set up currently, if 2 squads enter a firefight, the one that will win and move on is the one that has the closest rally point. No rally point in the area? too bad! you lose.

I would love nothing more to be only able to spawn at the main bases. It would not only encourage players to stick with their squad (because you would be almost useless on your own, and because you dont want to get stranded out in the middle of nowhere), but it would stress defense and squad strategy tenfold.

I feel that this would only increase the realism, and ulitmatly make for a much more sastisfying round after its all over.
And on a side note, yes you will get smacktards who will try and ruin your time, its inevitable in any online game you play. But said smacktards are going to be much less willing to 'tard around' if they can't respawn anywhere close to the action, and like grease monkey said, will quit playing after a week or so.

How effing long does it take to set up a defense or a new offensive? Give a couple of commands, reload, heal, and head out. Shouldn't take more than 30 seconds.

Too annoying on the big maps because of noobs.

I second that..

I still agree with the idea ... just an a new mode. It makes a lot of sense to me.

No, being killed in this game is too frequent to warrant an even longer wait to get back into the battle.