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I was playing Jabal Al Burj earlier and we (USMC) were capturing the factory area, and doing very well, until a MEC soldier threw two grenades into the cap area and took out everyone on the flag.

The cap area is approximately five feet wide . No offense to whoever created the map, but that is downright stupid.

And it's a problem with a lot of maps-- having cap areas that are extremely small and not very indicative of the areas that are supposedly being secured and captured (i.e. the factory complex in Jabal).

I suggest that this be taken into account for future maps, and for current maps that will be edited.

Too many cap areas are way, WAY too small and A: prone to spam from frags and other explosives because if you see a flag going down, you know EXACTLY where infantry are, and B: not very realistic that to capture a factory complex you are required to all be in a 3 meter wide radius.

Points A and B work for and against both sides, also. When capturing an area, the attackers are allowed to take up larger perimeters while still capturing the flag to defend against counter-attacks, but larger capture areas also would mean that defenders would be able to hide/defend from a larger area and would make it more difficult for attackers to completely secure an area.

Given a larger area to capture, it should also take more people to cap. No more capturing a whole area and section of the battlefield with two people and changing the whole pace of the game.

Since Jabal Al Burj is a sort of flagship map for PR (not necessarily 'flagship', but definitely a map that I think most PR vets agree promotes teamwork and is a solid all-around map), look at it a little more in depth. Western and Eastern Beach flag cap areas are both extremely small, the capture area for Dam is a small area inside the sandbags around the flag on the lower level, the capture area for the Bridge is a very small area around the flag, Factory is just the small area directly around the flag, City is the small area under the archway.

Still using it as an example, what if the Bridge cap area were extended a little bit into the hills, and a bit further down the road towards Dam? No more sitting on the flag and having a lone grenadier launch a 203 down on you guys from the hills across the bridge and taking out your whole squad. You would be able to simultaneously capture the bridge while also taking up defensive positions in the hill for an impending counter-attack.

Or, using another favorite map of mine, Qwai River, take a look at Government Center. You can't capture/defend the flag from the top of either buildings. You have to be on a tiny radius right by the flag.

It's a very simple suggestion and would be a relatively easy fix for maps, no debating whether it's hardcoded or requiring extensive modeling and animations! Just a few minutes to fix up the cap areas!

So please, for current and future maps (this is more a plea to mappers I suppose), take into account all these things.

Agreed.

And I also think, that the Bridge CP in Jabal needs some work, its too open, at least add a guard tower next to the flag...

Flag range should be small and behind defense, so the only way you have to cap the flag is by destroying the defense and making you way to some small room... an engine room or a room full of supplies...

No, it should not be small. How is a radius not big enough to support more than three men indicative of capturing a factory complex (ala Jabar Al Burj)? And I agree it should be behind defense. Look at Bridge on that map though. Where's the defense? The defense is in the hills. You can't capture the Bridge and simultaneously defend from the hills because the capture area is a tiny circle around the flag which is in a wide open area. Why are you punished for securing the area by being forced to remain out in the open?

I'm sorry but it's stupid. Look at the tunnel on Operation Ghost Train. When it's being capped it becomes an absolute spam fest because you are forced to stay in one tiny room to capture a tunnel. That sounds a bit silly to me.

Most maps have you capturing an area (such as a strategic beach front) or securing a pretty specific objective (such as the bridge on Jabal). Forcing the capturing team to stay in a tiny, very specific and well-known area (such as the pillboxes ala OGT North and South of Bridge) is first and foremost unrealistic, and second encourages stupid spam because you know EXACTLY where the enemy is.

generally much bigger flag radius from here on in...we are already in the process of expanding most CP radius...

'[R-DEV wrote:IronTaxi']generally much bigger flag radius from here on in...we are already in the process of expanding most CP radius...

Fierce mate. Very glad to hear. You dev's are getting better and better with time

Im putting 15-20 m wide cap zones in my map...and enough stuff around, so everyone can take cover and not get group killed by grenades..

in v0.6 + you should see more larger cap zones BUT, some maps and some CPs do require small cap radius. Players need to learn when trying to cap a flag with a small radius if they dont want to get fragged, they need to have players covering them from the outside, and around the permiter, not just all piling on the flag and every one trying to get more points for a flag cap like in vbf2.

Some flags how ever do need very large cap areas, that dont have them, there needs to be a verity of diffrent kinds of control points in every map to ensure that the gameplay is not always the same, and diffrent tatics need to be used for diffrent flags, which makes players think, which in the end only means more teamwork and more fun

A flag zone where there is no cover (as in the example of the bridge flag at Jabal) I think larger zones are required. Considering you need quite a few guys sitting on a flag to make it go up at a decent rate. If there is sufficient cover then they could be smaller. It's certainly not an issue that needs to be painted with a broad stroke. As Rhino said, in some cases it is appropriate, in others it's not.

I agree, I would say in general though, the flag cap radii should be increased. Some are really, really tiny, and make 'defense' nearly impossible. I understand that you can have people defend you from outside the radius, but considering that you need a decent amount of men on the flag to capture it quickly, sometimes you just can't afford to give up those men.

Look at Checkpoint Bravo (I think that is what it's called) on Mao Valley-- the flag area is more or less just the one bunker. Granted that there's trees all around it and it can be assaulted from nearly any direction, it's ridiculously hard to capture (and hold) if the other team counter-attacks with even a few men. Few frags and your whole squad is gone.

thats a very good example of a map that could use larger cap zones... althougth the catch 22 is that we have less area to put down rallypoints which could become frustrating...

Good point, just another thing to take note of for mappers when designing their maps.

'[R-DEV wrote:IronTaxi']thats a very good example of a map that could use larger cap zones... althougth the catch 22 is that we have less area to put down rallypoints which could become frustrating...

lol please don't kill Mao like Muttrah was killed lol. Mao is one of my favorite maps. Reminds me of BFV a little.

*gasp* an intelligent suggestion!

And yay for the devs in implementing it before it was even suggested