Project Reality Forums

It is impossible for the eyes to focus at more than one distance at once. This naturally applies when looking down the sights of a weapon as well. What it effectively means is that the area outside the iron sights become a blur. Only the area immediately around the iron sights is in focus and sharp.

I think adding a such blur effect to PR would greatly improve both immersion, realism factor and gameplay. The way it is now, you can use looking down the sights as a poor man's binoculars since you get a sharp vision of the whole screen. You can see an example of this 'weapon binocular' effect for yourself particularly well by bringing up the iron sights on the M16 (yes, I know it is in fact just a placeholder until ACOG model is made). This is what I want to get rid of as it is unrealistic and a bit cheap. Players should be made to use the binoculars and not just 'zoom in' if they want a closer look at things.

Another effect of this blur is that it will be much harder to use the iron sights in close quarters combat. That will make CQB more realistic. In fact it will make weapons harder to use in general, which is both more realistic and will reward skill more.

Weapons with scopes could be made more realistic as well. The thing with scopes in BF2 is on some weapons they allow you to see the area outside the scope as well which is not realistic: Looking through a scope you would put it right next to the eye so it blocks your view of the immediate surroundings. The spec ops M4 is an example of this. I suppose it is made how it is to make it easy to use in CQB but since it is not realistic and, to be frank, a bit silly I do not think it should be in PR. A better way to make it realistic and still be good in CQB is to make the scope take up most of the screen so very little is blacked out, much like how the visible area on the British L85 assault rifle is very large. The L85 rifle, MEC G3 and the sniper rifles are examples of how scopes should work: The entire area outside of the scope is simply blacked out.

This idea does make sense, especially the scopes. The only thing that I slightly don't like is that iron sights should have a bit of an advantage in CQB's over the scoped rifles. As such having the view really narrowed down could get in the way. It is realistic but it's also realistic to have your rifle up in the ready to fire position with both eyes open for CQC. In a perfect BF2 world it would be nice to have a dual stage aiming where you could do as I described and then a second level with the idea you posted to keep it from being one extreme or the other.

I believe the red dot on the M4 is a reflex sight and you are supposed to keep both eyes open as opposed to the others which have magnification.

How red dot sights work

Red dot sights use refractive or reflective optics to generate a collimated image of a luminous or reflective reticle. This collimated image appears to be projected out to a point at infinity, which makes the image of the reticle appear to the user to be projected onto the target. Due to the fact that the reticle image is collimated, magnifying the image of the target is impractical, as it would make the sight too hard to hold steady. The collimated image does have its advantages, however, as the scope can be placed at any distance from the eye without distorting the image of the target or reticle. This makes red dot sights suitable for use on pistols, submachine guns, rifles, or shotguns.

The most well-known feature of red dot sights is that some, but not all, compensate for the parallax created when the shooter's head moves in relation to the sight. In other words, the dot will point close to the actual point of projected impact even when viewed at an angle. However, parallax compensation is not perfect. Depending on sight quality, the range to the target and the magnitude of angle at which it is looked into, aiming error can be significant.The lack of magnification is also an advantage in that both eyes can be left open, and the eye that sees the reticle image will automatically superimpose that image with the image from the other eye, giving the shooter normal depth perception and full field of view. This makes the red dot sight very fast and easy to use.

Again I am not an expert but that seems to be what the M4 has and to me that is realistic and not at all silly.

I fully understand your concern but I think iron sight CQB superiority will be maintained with my idea. Even though the view is blurred you will still be able to sense the surroundings, something the scoped rifle players cannot since their surroundings are blocked off entirely. Also, as you have probably experienced, the scoped rifles in fact zoom 'too far' so to speak which make them difficult to use at short range.

OK, sounds like you have a good point there. Then I suggest we make the M4 and other reflex sights like the iron sights: Blurred outside focused area (scope).

But why would you use a 4x scope in CQB?

The G3 looks like it has the kind of mount that IRL would allow you to use the iron sights.

But you said " The spec ops M4 is an example of this. I suppose it is made how it is to make it easy to use in CQB but since it is not realistic and, to be frank, a bit silly I do not think it should be in PR." when quite clearly it is realistic and exactly what the optics were designed for.
Which would make your "silly" comment a little silly.

If it is possible to allow weapons that have both optics and iron sights to switch between them as the situation demands I would agree with you that it would be a nice addition.

I am not sure I follow. 'But why would you use a 4x scope in CQB?' Are you saying the M4 has 4x scope? In game, it does not. If you are talking about the scoped assault rifles like the G3, well it was kind of my point that it is not and should not be effective in CQB compared to iron sight equivalents.

There should definitely be an option to take the scope off the rifles like you suggest. That is in fact a very, very good idea as right now, the Rifleman is in fact worse in some CQB situations than the engineer and medic - and that is just wrong.

Sorry I missed that comment on the M4 Aimpoint optics. I did know that particular style of optic was designed how you described it, I was refering to the magnified optics.

The M16 mounts I don't believe allow for both iron sigths and optics to be used?

I have a feeling it will be near impossible to make the sighting system realistic and reflect all the possible scenarios. Plus it could get a little complicated and counter intuitive.

Long Bow hit it on the head. There are limitations to what can be done in a video game.

We are talking past each other in some respects.

I meant that using the scoped weapons like the G3, QBZ, M16 ( scope to follow) and the L85 in CQB is not optimal.

The M4's optics, on the other hand, is designed to give a full field of view with no blurring from focusing on magnified optics and really is the only reason to use that class.

I find that I don't use the sights in very close situations and simply fire from the hip and when the distance is more than 10m and less than about 60m is when the scopes are a giant PITA.

Mestia is a great example, I rarely use the rifleman as it does not provide the magnification to compete with snipers but hampers your ability to respond quickly to close in threats.

Yes, definitely fire from the hip in close quarter battle and even at intermediate ranges.

I do not think the M4 having no blur being the only reason to be a spec ops is a good argument for keeping the weapon that way. The spec ops class is flawed on the most basic level. I wish they would just remove the class until they find a way to make it worthwhile to play but that should not be discussed here. That fact the spec ops is useless should not impact how PR should handle weapons with reflex sights.

Now, I have no idea how reflex sights work but I simply cannot believe using it does not disturb your view in any way at all. Like I said, the eyes cannot focus on more than one thing at once. I think it would be best to hear from somebody with first-hand experience how reflex sights would best be implemented. In any case, I would not complain if it was decided to keep them how they are.

Strategist the optics on the M4 are called Aimpoints I believe. The whole design behind them is for CQC, they are designed for ease of use for both eyes or one eye. They have quite a large opening compared to a scope and you the viewing angle is much more forgiving. Basically it is designed to get around all of the things your suggesting should be implimented

Is it possible to add an a fuzzy texture around the 2D sights?

solodude23 wrote:
Go try it right now in real life. I have. First focus on the sights aiming down at your target. Then glance around moving nothing but your eyes. Is everything blurry where you look? No.

Ok if you have an assualt rifle laying around while you post here you Sir are hardcore But that was my point, your eyes are not fixed or blured at all times.

Of course you can move focus away from the sights even though you are holding them up to your eye but when you do this the area around the sights become blurred. What the game's current 'sharp vision everywhere' system translates into is being able to focus everywhere at once which is not possible in real life. So, I understand what you are saying but I think a better depiction of reality is to have the blur. It is all about finding the best compromise, really, since it is impossible to accurately model eye focus on a computer screen.

If it is technically possible at all I think the best compromise between my insisting 'not everything should unrealistically be in focus at once' and your equally valid 'you can [rapidly] shift focus' - ideas that both have their merits and impact the gameplay in a certain way - would be this: Around the iron sights, vision on the screen is perfectly sharp. It then slowly (it should not be too restrictive) degenerates into a blur the further away from the sight you get so that the area immediately around the sights is almost completely sharp and all the way out at the edge of the screen it is extremely blurred.

El_Vikingo wrote:Is it possible to add an a fuzzy texture around the 2D sights?

I think last time we had a thread on this it was said by a dev that you either have the whole screen blured or none at all. While this would be an exelent addition to the mod, I don't think its possible technically with the BF2 engine.

Mind you, at the current time I'm somewhat inebriated and so may be imagining things. But I believe what I've said is correct.

So, like so many others, good, but not possible!

It is a good point, Solo, and frankly I must admit I did not think of it. Perhaps simply the fact that your eyes cannot focus on more than one part of the screen at once is all the blur we need.