Project Reality Forums

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Can you please tell if the chopper controls in DC were more realistic than the ones in BF2? The reason I ask is... I would strongly advocate for DC chopper controls because they were much harder to learn.

The problem now is choppers are way to easy to fly.

The littlebird is harder to fly but the controls really dont allow you to do much except fly forward. Landing is near impossible because you need to line up just like you do a plane and gradually descend...

In DC, the choppers were very hard to fly in the beginning. Once good pilots got the hang if it, they did some crazy things and really added to the fight. I was one of them I love being a chopper pilot. I would spend the entire round inserting troops into difficult-to-reach places and it gave us some good leverage over the other team.

Everyone said that because the chopper controls were so difficult, you would always have noobs flying and crashing. It ended up completely different.. as those that didnt know how to fly just gave up and those that wanted to learn did so to show off... which is good for team of course.

I really wish some of the stuff from DC gameplay was brought back into PR. Everything didnt flow as balanced as it does in BF2 which is what made the game great. It wasn't realistic, but me, being a realism freak, never got bored.... why is that?

I never mastered the choppers in DC. I could fly them and I could fly rings around the bots in SP but I wouldn't have lasted 10 seconds online back then...

Wether it is actually possible to bring back DC chopper physics is something I can't answer and will happily let ArchEnemy or Paladin-X do that!

Those chopper physics were horrible!

Not realistic at all. The way those were you could only have throttle on or throttle completely off. That is in no way realistic.

The way they are now is great because they do descend a little while hovering so its not like insta-hover. But even so, the inst-hover is more realistic than the DC configuration. IRL a choppers throttle is called the collective. Basically because its a lever and thats how it works, collectively. If you put it at 75%, it stays at 75% until you move the lever.

So basically how the choppers are simulated now is an assumption that any normal pilot would tell you is pretty realistic. Basically just suggesting that when ever you let off the torque, you simply bringing the lever back down to around 50% for a hover.

I fly with my mouse and keyboard, with DC config. i hated it sooo much because i would have to keep clickin and clickin and clickin and clickin to hover for like 2 mins. It was stupid..

GRB wrote:Those chopper physics were horrible!

Not realistic at all. The way those were you could only have throttle on or throttle completely off. That is in no way realistic.

The way they are now is great because they do descend a little while hovering so its not like insta-hover. But even so, the inst-hover is more realistic than the DC configuration. IRL a choppers throttle is called the collective. Basically because its a lever and thats how it works, collectively. If you put it at 75%, it stays at 75% until you move the lever.

So basically how the choppers are simulated now is an assumption that any normal pilot would tell you is pretty realistic. Basically just suggesting that when ever you let off the torque, you simply bringing the lever back down to around 50% for a hover.

I fly with my mouse and keyboard, with DC config. i hated it sooo much because i would have to keep clickin and clickin and clickin and clickin to hover for like 2 mins. It was stupid..

Are you saying that it was stupid becuase it was hard for you to fly and you would prefer that it would be easier? Alot of people are itching to get the DC chopper controls back in Desert Conflict mod and there's a good reason for this.

BF2 choppers do not have that "collective" that you speak of. Watch the torque meter on your chopper hud. If i let go of the "forward" key, the torque drops --- it doesnt stay. The same goes for everything else BF2 choppers except for the auto-hover that it has.

The BF2 choppers are very easy to fly and aren't maneuverable at all.

In DC, it took some practice in order to fly a chopper. You had to get used to the controls and get a good feel for each chopper, at which point you would be an effective pilot. In BF2, all you have to do is jump in and press up.

Either way, I would really a pilot's opinion as to what's more realistic... that is, in terms of actually flying.

BTW, I'm really surprised that you think this way... as most people really do believe that DC chopper controls were better because they were harder to master.

Everything in BF2 is entirely too easy... PR changes that aspect in regards to infantry combat. Now you have to think more and be a better shot. I would prefer that this ideal flows into vehicles ingame as well, that's all.

where the hell is dawg

i think the physics POE had were good but the TW mini mod made them pretty damm good

I'm not a pilot, but compared to flight sims.. I think that BF2 has the best physics model to work with, with the exception of the throttle, which needs to be changed to work exactly like POE's does. my 2 cents

I pretty much mastered the helicopters in DC, but I still got shot down by RPGs alot

Beckwith wrote:where the hell is dawg

DAWG is here! Why? Did you miss me? lol.

POE did do a good job with the flight physics and with a little tweaking, the TW Mini Mod did make the flight physics pretty sweet. The actual helos in BF2are not that bad, sure the decent could be quickened, currently the game lends to bailing out continuosly as it is pointless trying a hot insertion as you simply spend too much time decending and become a perfect target for anyone with an AT weapon.

The helos have a new control, sure it is easy to grasp, but very difficult to master, a point highlighted by the fact that people feel any n00b can jump in a helo and put up a decent fight. It has been said that I am a fair to decent pilot and having not mastered the art by any means, I would still be 100% certain to do a much better job than a n00b. I urge you all to try flying the helos again, there are ways and means of accomplishing the maneuvres you could in DC. The trick is to find out how to do it using a more realistic engine.

Let me qualify that last statement, BF2 is still shite! I am not arguing that the physics are perfect, simply that they are better than DC. Come on, DC used fix wing physics for the helos, which is why you had to continualy throttle up. Never quite understood the rudder problem though, whenever you ruddered in a Spitfire in didn't put you into a continual spin unless corrected.

I have mastered DCs choppers and just love the physics of them...if there was some way to mix BF2s with DC, i think it would be perfect.

i liked them better in POE, they were alot more nimble and manueverable

and no i didnt miss you just need someone to reinforce my point

Ok, not a chopper pilot, but was a USMC crewchief with stick time on the UH-1N and the AH-1W. Controlling the aircraft itself (moving the cyclic) is very well translated to BF2. Choppers don't really turn "super" fast. Nor do they do "flips" at all IRL.
I think that the collective is the way it is because of using the keyboard. Even going full down on the collective doesn't make you fall out of the sky IRL. At all times when you fly the throttles are all the way up. You still have the engines turning the rotors a little bit in that case. When going into a CAL (confined area landing) there are other things that we did to bleed off altitude. Turning made you decend faster. Pointing the nose down made you descent faster. Doing both at the same time made you go down REALLY fast. At the end of that nose down decending manuver you'd have to pull back on the nose to slow your airspeed down and pull up the collective to get power back into the blades to actually land. THAT was hard to do cause you didn't want to over speed the rotor head and break something or pull to hard and actually ACEND.
I've tried the nose down turn manuver in BF2 and it works. As IRL, it's hard to do. I do slide a little bit on the ground, but not too bad.

In concusion, the physics are VERY close to real in BF2. Landing takes time, and you are vulnerable. Choppers turn quick but aren't "twitch" fast.

Some choppers can do "flips" like the German Tiger. Those things are like the Migs of the chopper world. They can do the chopper equivilent of the "Cobra" move that most modern Russian fighters can do.

aye, some can..... but it's one of those things that just aren't done. I know that the AH-1Z and thu UH-1Y coud do it, cause they got a new rotor system. But I think it's one of those things that should be VERY difficult to do. hehe Mabye put some papers or stuff that falls into view when you turn inverted...

just for the record, a loop has be performed in a CH-53 super stallion

Although i'm a fixed wing pilot, i do have hundreds of hours of Simulated Helo time and a number of years experience flying aerobatic remote control helicopters.

I believe the BF2 helos are not too bad. However the one thing that bugs me is the lack of torque, and the need to counter it with the antitorque pedals. If this were added it would bring a whole new lvl of skill to flying the helos, as in a hover left anti torque would be required to keep it from spinning etc...

I think the LB is far better than the default BF2 helos, its far less stable and actually takes of bit of practice to get a good hover, backward flight going.

Corey Darling wrote:just for the record, a loop has be performed in a CH-53 super stallion

Yeah... and they had to scrap the airframe :d uh:

Artnez.com wrote:Are you saying that it was stupid becuase it was hard for you to fly and you would prefer that it would be easier? Alot of people are itching to get the DC chopper controls back in Desert Conflict mod and there's a good reason for this.

BF2 choppers do not have that "collective" that you speak of. Watch the torque meter on your chopper hud. If i let go of the "forward" key, the torque drops --- it doesnt stay. The same goes for everything else BF2 choppers except for the auto-hover that it has.

The BF2 choppers are very easy to fly and aren't maneuverable at all.

In DC, it took some practice in order to fly a chopper. You had to get used to the controls and get a good feel for each chopper, at which point you would be an effective pilot. In BF2, all you have to do is jump in and press up.

Either way, I would really a pilot's opinion as to what's more realistic... that is, in terms of actually flying.

BTW, I'm really surprised that you think this way... as most people really do believe that DC chopper controls were better because they were harder to master.

Everything in BF2 is entirely too easy... PR changes that aspect in regards to infantry combat. Now you have to think more and be a better shot. I would prefer that this ideal flows into vehicles ingame as well, that's all.

Ok, firstly, yes, the DC configuration was harder to master. I was actually a VERY good pilot in DC. The AH-64 was murderous with me piloting it. Hell i could take out the MiGs on El Alamein. Secondly, POEs physics were nice. No objections on that.

I dont want to be the bad guy in this discussion, but regaurdless of how hard it was to master in DC, that doesnt make them realistic in any way...As a matter of fact there was absolutely nothing realistic about the DC helos..This is a realism mod. It being focused on realism, the DC physics would totally mess things up.

The collective throttle system in BF2 is great. The bar you see on the side that goes up and down, is the TORQUE. The amount of torque applied to your flight has little to do with hovering. Someone already stated that even when you reduce to 0 torque, a helicopter will stay up. It wont stay in one spot like insta-hover, no, but it wont drop out of the sky like a rock.(DC physics)

The only way to get a helo to drop out of the sky like that would be to reduce the engine power. Reducing engine power is usually not something a pilot would want to do because its dangerous and could render the helo unrecoverable if it was to start tilting too far.

Also, in real life, these helicopters are not as "nimble" as you think. A lot of the manuvers I've pulled off with the BlackHawk, i dont think the BH is even capable of. I think in real life most of the manuvers ive pulled off would have stressed the hydraulics to the point of complete failure as well as twisted some of the aircrafts frame, resulting in a completely non-flyable helicopter, which would act like a DC chopper and fall from the sky like a rock...Lets just be happy we cant have it THAT realistic. Because if it was, then a lot of you would probably not like realism any more..lol.

Lets not forget that in real life, these helos do not fly in and attack targets like a wasp. Man they dont come in hot, dive down, blast off like 12 FFARs at a tank, swoop away and call it a day. Hell no. If a pilot did that in the USMC or ARMY, they would probably be relieved of all thier duties, equipment, and sent home to work at McDonalds..

Man the way helicopters REALLY work is a lot more subtle. They tend to HOVER and let the COPILOT take shots from usually close to a mile or more away. Working together with AWACS and other spotting helicopters and equipment, most of the time the enemy never even knew the helo was even there.

THATS the reality of it...

Noetheinner wrote:Yeah... and they had to scrap the airframe :d uh:

Not to mention they probably fried all the hydraulics on the recover...

GRB wrote:The only way to get a helo to drop out of the sky like that would be to reduce the engine power. Reducing engine power is usually not something a pilot would want to do because its dangerous and could render the helo unrecoverable if it was to start tilting too far.

But they still do it. "Cracking throttles" is what our pilots say when doing that. It's scary as hell. You have one decent rate going, then the pilot notices that he's gonna miss the zone, and then you get a faster decent rate. I've had a hard landing when the NUG pilot didn't roll em back up. After that our squadron implemented the "full open" command to let every one know that engines are back online.

And agreed, too dang dangerous.

Noetheinner wrote:But they still do it. "Cracking throttles" is what our pilots say when doing that. It's scary as hell. You have one decent rate going, then the pilot notices that he's gonna miss the zone, and then you get a faster decent rate. I've had a hard landing when the NUG pilot didn't roll em back up. After that our squadron implemented the "full open" command to let every one know that engines are back online.

And agreed, too dang dangerous.

Really? I would've thought that it would only be an emgergency tactic used at higher altitudes to elude AA fire or something..Didnt think they would do it to land faster...Interesting. Learn somethin every day!

Yea, decreasing engine power results in less torque. I also know that decreasing engine power can be catastrophic if you tilt at anything below 60%...Your helo will drop fast and will be completely unresponsive to your rotor adjustments. Needless to say you probably wont recover. And if you do, the helo is going to have damage caused by the stress of the sudden change in power vs. drop speed that could cause you to lose control again.

To make it easier for those that dont get it, picture it like this:

Each chopper has two engines. Each engine has a POWER lever. Full power means each lever for both engines all the way up. The blades spin at a high enough speed at full power to generate enough lift to keep an airborn helo in the air, but not lift it off the ground. Then you have a third lever which controls the rotor TORQUE. Increase the torque on the blades and vuola, you have lift and you can leave the ground or tilt forward and go very fast.

The less power comming from the engines, the less torque that can be applied to the blades. At full power, torque is the main "throttle", if you will, for increasing and decreasing speed and altitude.

So all in all i think BF2s setup is pretty damned good.

Mad Max wrote: "Cobra" move that most modern Russian fighters can do.

that might be the craziest thing ive ever seen