Project Reality Forums

Here is my suggestion. Read it entirely and consider how it would "play".

Make Civilians run a tiny bit faster than a soldier can run or the same speed(harder to catch).
REMOVE Spade.
REMOVE Wrench.

If a Civilian is killed by an enemy soldier, 2 tickets are given to the insergants to negate the death and an extra "follower" due to anger at Civilians being killed by troops. A 90 second respawn timer to the soldier that killed him.

If a Civilian is arrested, no ticket bonus to the Coalition team, Removing their ability to "scout" is enough of a benefit.


All these would make the civilian role more "civilian" than "rioter", making them more of a scout, less of a "lets try and get shot" role.

Removal of Spade and Wrench makes them a more neutral Role. But their ability to spot for insergants still enables them to have a wartime function.

Also give the civilian a chance to run away, preventing Coalition troops just arresting every civilian in sight, allowing civilians to serve a proper function. Which is to provide intelligence to insergants.

I believe they made the civilians run slower because they are 'fat'

I don't care if they are "fat", My suggestions are to make the gameplay concerning civilians better. Rather than the "Try and get shot" mentality that exists under the current setup.

the sprinttime in the first betas was much longer, but it was nearly imposible to arrest any civilians. the sprinttime was reduced in the last beta and imho fits the gameplay much better.
people just have to use civilian class proper, the team doesnt need 10 civis, 4 or 5 are enough. they also shouldnt get to close to the colition forces,stay away and use your binocs, its really funny when people try to throw stones on groups of 6 brits, run away and then complain " omfg i have sneakers but my character doesnt run fast enough..."

It appears everyone is missing the point of my suggestion.

It would encourage people to play as a civilian properly. You can't rely on people to play properly. You have to force them to. Sure you'll get people who still try and get themselves shot, but it would have little bonus. Sure you'll get people who still shoot everyone in sight, but the damage is a lot less to their team. Allowing them to run away allows them to actually not be arrested as soon as they run too far from their team mates. Civilians arent protected by insergents in RL.

Then Soldiers would have to actually have a tough case on their hands trying to catch them.

I think if we tried my setup, it would work very well. Less moaning from everyone. Limit their rocks too, to 5 or something.

ZiRo wrote:I don't care if they are "fat", My suggestions are to make the gameplay concerning civilians better. Rather than the "Try and get shot" mentality that exists under the current setup.

heres the thing, you need to stop assuming that you know everything about everything. If you make the civvies faster than the soldiers, its "try and get shot, then run away when someone comes to knife you" (which is you know, one of the fulcrums of the civvy gameplay.

causticbeat wrote:heres the thing, you need to stop assuming that you know everything about everything. If you make the civvies faster than the soldiers, its "try and get shot, then run away when someone comes to knife you" (which is you know, one of the fulcrums of the civvy gameplay.

You're completly ignoring the fact that my other changes would negate the benefit of "trying to be shot".

I'd love it if you sat for one moment and actually considered how civilians would play, from all aspects/sides, taking my original posts points into account.

Not technically possible to make 2 soldier bodies run at different speeds. Think I have already told you this.

Ok, fine, thanks. The civilian running speed wasn't the magic fix, running the same speed is cool, maybe increase their sprint to almost as much as soldiers, but not quite?

Why do the civilians have the shovel, or spade, anyway? Insurgents can't have a commander which equals no commander assets which equals no builidng.

youm0nt wrote:Why do the civilians have the shovel, or spade, anyway? Insurgents can't have a commander which equals no commander assets which equals no builidng.

Gardens.




Well as much as your changes would possibly "fix" the problem it may simply encourage people to not be so carefull with killing civilians. If there is a very minimal ticket penalty from killing civys (with your system I could kill 5 civys for 10 points vs. now 1 for 10 points). So civys may not be so inclined to go run into gun fire but now the Brits will care very little about shooting the civys. Yes a 90 sec spawn time is nasty but currently killing civys gives you a 60 sec spawn and the 10 point penalty, 30 more sec and less repracutions may create more problems then fix. I think with a bit of time people will learn the rules and not shoot civys. The way civys are being played though i.e. bullet magnet, is a more difficult fix.

I think (if possible) we should give the civilian a short sprint, as opposed to the soldiers "tactical trot"
if you were walking outside and a challenger rolled around the corner you would turn around and run, not try to pace yourself. this would make civilian pursuits a little more interesting.

also if anyone remembers the i82 mod for 1942 the players had a hand and when you right clicked the player would make a less than friendly gesture. if bf2 can do this i think we should add a "hand" weapon that has the idle animation until you click which toggles a hands up surrendering action.
this is probably not possible but, if the civilian was using this when he is captured he will get a shortened spawn time (20sec?) since collaborators aren't punished that much if at all.

Yes, they would be more inclined to shoot civilians, but i think they would hide more knowing it. Civilians arent going to just walk around in a fire fight anyway.

I think it is only going to be as hard as it is now to learn not to shoot civilians for noobs. 2 tickets is still a penalty, but it stops the team being punished so much for trigger happy noobs. This isn't something that's going to be absolutly resolved. But the run and get shot tactics are really really lame and there is nothing to combat it shy of changing the bonuses.

I'm gonna leave this thread alone, devs will make what they will of it.

Here's what I see is wrong with this trying to make these civilians hide: This is a game. The reason why they hide in RL is so they don't die, cause they cannot respawn in RL. Here they can, so they don't care. I say just rename em as meatshields and we're good to go. Don't shoot the meat shields cause they don't have guns.

{9thInf}GunnyMeyer wrote:Here's what I see is wrong with this trying to make these civilians hide: This is a game. The reason why they hide in RL is so they don't die, cause they cannot respawn in RL. Here they can, so they don't care. I say just rename em as meatshields and we're good to go. Don't shoot the meat shields cause they don't have guns.

If they're going to be a meat shield, then there shouldn't be any penalty for shooting them.

Perhaps making civilians a pick-up kit or a limited kit (only 5 allowed) would be better but might not be possible with the current civilian configuration. I don't know how you would then disallow anyone from picking up a civ kit from picking up a different kit afterward.

Either way, civvies do significantly damage the gameplay due to the currently unreasonable ticket penalties. IRL most civilian casualties go unpunished - they are collateral damage. Just something to think about.

Had you played the 0.6 Open Beta, you would know that the "shoot me" mentality was far worse when civilians could runaway and start bunny hopping.

They are only like this now, because it's just been released and people don't know how to cope with them. Wait a few weeks and you'll see how everything calms down.

FFS, G'day to you Sir.

The only good insurgent map is Al Basrah. This is because it's objective based. Once people get the hang of it and stop crowding around the VCP for hours the game changes. In 607 it played great because guys knew what was up and played it right on both sides. When playing the "real way", there aren't so many bullets just blasting away at groups of civs. If anything the insurgents are shooting more cause the brits are slinking through the streets dodging their bullets on their way to the next ammo dump. I know most of you new guys will say "BS the game just wont play that way, people will ghey it up etc etc etc". The game is starting to evovle to that and soon enough good SL and CO's will get things rolling again. And finally, when the game is played like it should, the civilian class shines so very well. The brits just aren't hunting Insurgents cause its pointless...so the insurgents are hunting brits...thus the civ class serves its true purpose, Recon. Its happened too "Oh **** a civ spotted us"...we try to trap him before the whole team knows were we are and run off....but this was during beta and I hope things progress back to something like that...eitherway there is always password night on TG!

Brits are chasing Ammo dumps...insurgents are chasing brits (thus the civ class works well).

On albasarah people just need to leave the VCP and move to the industrial part to clear the ammo out. You can find the dumps without having a big red marker on them....the insurgents will be sitting there with no one around and all is well. This is how brits win, not by engaging the insurgents...its almost like a time game as the british tickets are going down and you have to race to all the dumps.

We never intended Insurgents to be used in AAS mode, never was an aspect of our original design notions that an Insurgency would try and reclaim objectives or terrain from a Conventional army.

We had always intended for them to be used in objective like modes. db cooked up Insurgency and modes like this will be the way you'll see the Insurgents faction used in the future. There may be the odd flag to cap, like the VCP, but scenarios like that would be the exception and not the norm.