Project Reality Forums

To Whom it May Concern,


I have seen this issue mentioned briefly in the 0.6 BETA thread and have linked that thread here.

Essentially it asserts that after the changes made in 0.6, audio effects, specifically weapon's fire and vehicle engine sounds, are no longer providing the audio cues they should to players. The previous thread contained a post from [R-Dev]sofad who promised improvements in the final release.

However after a few weeks of testing it is my evaluation that a problem still exists. I base this evaluation on some experience; as a former employee of Creative Labs Inc, I have some experience with how Sound Cards, sound technology, and EAX are supposed to work. I do not claim however, to be a sound engineer.

From what I am able to discern, the problem has little or nothing to do with EAX but the code itself. It seems to me that when the code was altered, it was done so it a way that simply amplifies sound at distance, irregardless of EAX or even basic software interpolation. This makes sounds that should be heard at 50m audible at 200m, and so on.

While I understand the Dev's goal of having weapons fire audible at longer ranges, amplification is a poor solution, and likely provides a less satisfying and certainly a less accurate, audio experience. To illustrate this assumption, on the map "Jabal Al Burj" I was able to clearly make out M-16 weapons fire taking place in the "City" CP from the deck of the US carrier, over 800m away and over a considerable mountain range.

The EAX and software sound protocols that power the BF2 audio engine are designed to take into effect terrain and other impediments to sound, like buildings and walls. Amplifying the range of audible sounds has reduced the effectiveness of occlusion and echo, so sounds that should appear to be almost a kilometer away over a mountain range, sound instead as if they were only 200m away over an open field.

I would like to ask the Dev team if there are any plans to either re-instate the original 0.5 sound coding, or to modify the existing 0.6 coding to better accommodate EAX. Audio cues are a critical asset to any FPS game, and I am sure every PR player knows that in Project Reality, this statement is especially true.

NOTE: I currently employ a Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS sound card and have tested PR using both it, and my motherboard audio, EAX on and off, with headphones and 5.1 speakers, using audio settings from low to extreme. I found some small differences but they all presented grossly inaccurate audio cues in terms of perceived distance and directionality.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

DD

I have an X-fi Platinum on 5.1 Logitech THX speakers. Everything is 98% perfect on my side...I think you might be seeing some other issues outside the game that could be effecting your sound experience. Is crystal 3d enabled on your sound console? What Troubleshooting have you done to your card etc? Is your Sound Quality on Ultra-High? When was the last time you updated your sound cards drivers?

Uh, sounds like you aren't running EAX? Doesn't it only sound that way when a person doesn't run EAX?

Before 0.6, without EAX far away sounds were not audible. In 0.6 without EAX far away sounds sound too close, but with EAX they get occluded and it sounds pretty cool. Doesn't it?

DarthDisco wrote:
From what I am able to discern, the problem has little or nothing to do with EAX but the code itself. It seems to me that when the code was altered, it was done so it a way that simply amplifies sound at distance, irregardless of EAX or even basic software interpolation. This makes sounds that should be heard at 50m audible at 200m, and so on.

Correct, I take responsibility for increasing the sound distances too much. However this is only a temporary solution for a far greater idea coming in 0.7 which will involve the current sound distance being reduced and a new sound being used for distant fire (only if we can accomplish this). We needed a solution for now though because of maps like Kashan Desert.

While I understand the Dev's goal of having weapons fire audible at longer ranges, amplification is a poor solution, and likely provides a less satisfying and certainly a less accurate, audio experience. To illustrate this assumption, on the map "Jabal Al Burj" I was able to clearly make out M-16 weapons fire taking place in the "City" CP from the deck of the US carrier, over 800m away and over a considerable mountain range.

It's not amplification, it's increasing the sound distances which is different. If I could amplify the gunshots anymore that would actually SOLVE the problem Also, there is no way in hell you heard M-16 fire at at the city form the carrier. Not possible. It was coming from somewhere else.

The EAX and software sound protocols that power the BF2 audio engine are designed to take into effect terrain and other impediments to sound, like buildings and walls. Amplifying the range of audible sounds has reduced the effectiveness of occlusion and echo, so sounds that should appear to be almost a kilometer away over a mountain range, sound instead as if they were only 200m away over an open field.

We changed how static objects like buildings and trees block sound. But the BF2 engine does not recognize terrain as a sound obstructing object.

I would like to ask the Dev team if there are any plans to either re-instate the original 0.5 sound coding, or to modify the existing 0.6 coding to better accommodate EAX. Audio cues are a critical asset to any FPS game, and I am sure every PR player knows that in Project Reality, this statement is especially true.

0.7 Trust us.

NOTE: I currently employ a Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS sound card and have tested PR using both it, and my motherboard audio, EAX on and off, with headphones and 5.1 speakers, using audio settings from low to extreme. I found some small differences but they all presented grossly inaccurate audio cues in terms of perceived distance and directionality.

If you could hear an M16 in the city from the carrier, someone has been hacking your tweak files

Thank you for your time and consideration.



DD

Cheers for the input

Thanks for the prompt reply,


I'm left with only one question then. When you make the changes in the future to play a secondary sound file at larger distances, how will you decide where the cutoff point between short and long range sounds is? And as for the close range sounds, will they be reset to standard amplification? Currently, though the effect is greater felt at distances over 100m, even at near point blank, an enemy who is heard running may seem like he's on the other side of a wall when in fact he's a few buildings down.

Which reminds me. Why were sounds like footsteps amplified in the first place? I can hear a soldier marching on solid ground from over 50m away.

0.7 , sound distances on weapons will be decreased (probably close enough to 0.5 distances) and a new distant effect will be added that can be heard over great distances. If it works well, the sound of the weapon will slowly fade into a "pop" sound and this pop sound will be audible for a long distance (greater distances depending on caliber).

"Sounds" good to me

hi DD,

it seems you have the same probleme like Bubba, another forum member here.
he can hear the radiochatter from a RP over 100m! all other players, without problems can hear it for 15m at most.

can you take a ingame video with fraps pls to show me how you hear the sounds?

have you tried to update the openal.dll in your battlefield2 folder to the newest version?

try to lower your hardwareacceleration for sound, wich can be found in dxdiag.exe, at least for windows XP


now to some explannations..

EAX does not only change the sound for occlusion only, it ads also an air-absorption effect, wich is damping the sound from 0 at 1m to the max effect at around 200m.

occlusion works only for statics, aka objects in the BF2 engine. hills and other terrain dont occlude the sound, unfortunatly. thats a hardcoded engine problem. we are working on a workaround for 0.7, but we cant promise everything.
we increased the range of the occlusion effect from 15 to 700 meters now. so this effect is there, but not for terrain.

but the main problem for distant sounds at the BF2 soundengine is a different one.
the BF2 soundengine use linear curves to fade out and in distant sounds. what we need for a more realistic experience here are logarithmic curves for fading out (adding air absorption effect too) sounds at distant.
with these linear curves you will hear sounds especially at mid ranges louder as you would expect them.
thats a hardcoded problem.
you didnt notice it that much on the very short soundranges vanilla has and DICE may had saved some 0.002 % CPU power, but this choice was a bad idea for long range sounds we need them.

Great post, very detailed and great responses.
Damn I love this game.
BTW: I have a 2-3year old computer w/onboard soundcard and I cannot hear things like and M16 from the West beach let alone the City.

'[R-DEV wrote:sofad']have you tried to update the openal.dll in your battlefield2 folder to the newest version?

Ah, how exactly does one go about doing that, and where would I get an updated openal.dll file to do it?

Thanks
R

rico11b wrote:Ah, how exactly does one go about doing that, and where would I get an updated openal.dll file to do it?

Thanks
R

read this post. the last suggested point is the update guide.

'[R-DEV wrote:sofad']read this post. the last suggested point is the update guide.

Ok, thank you my good man.

R

watch out, i just edited the linked thread above! i did a little mistake with the result of no sound in BF2 when following the guide.
this mistake is now corrected!