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It seems like when I play as a chopper pilot that I'll take a bunch of damage from a .50 per say and fly back for repairs. I'm there for a few moments then all of the sudden I'm fully armed and repaired like a Nascar team is doing it. It just seems like its too fast to repair tanks and choppers. I think it leads to some gamey tactics and people not taking care of their armor/helos because its really no big deal to repair them.

Why I don't like this for choppers is that, lets say I put an Aim missle into the enmy chopper and he flys off. Their chopper has to bug out for a couple of minutes leaving them vulnerable. I'd like this time to be a little longer though as usually the bad guys run off, then I find a quick target but have to soon get back to dealing with the enmy chopper(minus Aim missles) being that the Nascar team has him reworked and now more fully armed than me. I'd like to hold an advantage a little longer if I won a minor fight...maybe I'd have some time to hit a few enmys and then head back to rearm and prepare for the enemy chopper.

If we increased the repair time I think that it would cause most people to be a little more conservative with their tanks/helos thus leading to a little more realistic play. I know for me that if taking damage significantely limited my choppers "Attacking time" then I wouldn't be as bold with the thing.

VipersGhost wrote:It seems like when I play as a chopper pilot that I'll take a bunch of damage from a .50 per say and fly back for repairs. I'm there for a few moments then all of the sudden I'm fully armed and repaired like a Nascar team is doing it. It just seems like its too fast to repair tanks and choppers. To me it seems like it leads to some gamey tactics and people not taking care of their armor/helos because its really no big deal to repair them.

Why I don't like this for choppers is that, lets say I put an Aim missle into the enmy chopper and he flys off. Their chopper has to bug out for a couple of minutes leaving them vulnerable. I'd like this time to be a little longer though as usually the bad guys run off, then I find a quick target but have to soon get back to dealing with the enmy chopper(minus Aim missles) being that the Nascar team has him reworked and now more fully armed than me. I'd like to hold an advantage a little longer if I won a minor fight...maybe I'd have some time to hit a few enmys and then head back to rearm and prepare for the enemy chopper.

I agree it should take far longer to re-arm and repair the times now are just simply not realistic even for the sake of keeping the game going. Further more i think the "wrenches" should be removed from the game and in place of them should be a comander deployed repair station or somthing of the sort.

I also agree on removing the wrenches. Hell our tanks can already take multiple Sabot rounds, doesn't 1 good hit IRL normally kill\disable them(speculation)? Tanks are already dominant enough...I think they should be a little more dependant on good Teamwork to keep them up and running besides just an engineer. I know the wrench is being removed from the crewman, but now tanks are eating up a third position...on big tank maps it seems like theres already a lack of infantry, now their will be 2-3 less due to engineers sitting with tankers. I'm all for having your Armor depend on CO assets for repairs in .7. This would require extra teamwork, leave more INF on the ground and force Tankers to use more realistic tactics being that repairing would actually be a daunting task instead of a 60sec ordeal.

Dont worry, tanks will be fooked without their crewman wrench and I doubt, you'll see organised engineer&armor squads on a regular basis

I suggest, that the Engineer wrench repairs slower, but the support Humvee/UAZ should repair much faster.

What about the choppers Outlawz? I'm all for them taking longer to repair, its SO fast right now.

You pump a missile into a transport chopper and for the most part they are dead. Even if they repair they will avoid you at all costs next time.
You hit an enemy attack chopper, they re-arm, back to the fight in minutes. This is the real problem, as noted above, because that's insane. Even for crack-addicted greasemonkeys on speed.

A full landing cycle including engine shutdown should be required for repairs. Keep the stupid wrenches, make them slower so you have to have teams of engies like in RL.
You don't fix a helicopter with the rotors spinning.

This should deal with the balance issue and keep broken birds out of the sky long enough to create an advantage for hitting them. You don't have to kill an enemy to reduce his effectiveness.

Couple of points:

-Wrenches are being removed from crewmen.

-It already takes a fair while to completely rearm a chopper if it fires off everything. For that reason I always RTB after firing off both my AAMs, on the basis that it's better to detour home for a minute than get jumped with no anti-air, or whilst rearming over a full minute for hydras etc.

-Repairs do come quickly, yeah. With regards to removing the repair function of landing pads and placing repair stations - what happens then? You have a single station at which you have tanks and APCs attempting to sit next to, and then you have choppers coming in and hovering at low level overhead to repair too? That's just asking for two things: base-raping attacks from the enemy and a ton of accidental collisions.

tbh about attack helos heading back to base and repairing.. that shouldnt be to much of a problem regarding the travel distance the tv missiles have nowadays.
on daqing the tv missile travels across the whole map, on kashan both bases are easily approachable because of mountains covering you.
if they whine baserape just counter with they shouldnt be such cowards in the first place^^

the support humvees are slow enough, but my concern is that it seems the DEVs are adopting a course of solely letting the support humvees repair. imo it leads to plenty of problems since theres ALWAYS someone driving it off to the frontline where it then remains or gets blown up.
eitherway youre screwed.. be this qwai, kyongan'ni or kufrah...
thing is it randoms the helos ( especially ah6) to a disposable asset. ones its damaged you bail and let a new one spawn

I really wish those maps had helopods for safe rearming in the base ( maybe invincible under the existing spawnpoints)
simply because as much as noone wants to defend the base because its horrificly boring, noone wants to remain at the base as engineer to repair vehicles.
if you so wish the helopods could repair slower Id have no problem with that but imho I believe we need the NASCAR team.

[R-PUB]Masaq wrote:Couple of points:

-Wrenches are being removed from crewmen.

-It already takes a fair while to completely rearm a chopper if it fires off everything. For that reason I always RTB after firing off both my AAMs, on the basis that it's better to detour home for a minute than get jumped with no anti-air, or whilst rearming over a full minute for hydras etc.

-Repairs do come quickly, yeah. With regards to removing the repair function of landing pads and placing repair stations - what happens then? You have a single station at which you have tanks and APCs attempting to sit next to, and then you have choppers coming in and hovering at low level overhead to repair too? That's just asking for two things: base-raping attacks from the enemy and a ton of accidental collisions.

Ah in no way would I want to remove the "Base Repair" for choppers. I do support repair stations in addition to base repair. I do think it should take longer to repair, though a good point was made about how you can just use TV missiles on a repairing chopper....so maybe its not the best idea with current conditions.

Basically what I'm saying is...so if I waste both my AA missiles on an enmy chopper and one hits. Now he runs off home to repair for 10 seconds and is back in the action. The problem is that now I HAVE to return as well being that having no AA missiles greatly limits me. Rearming AA missiles takes longer that it takes for him to flippin heal....so he gets back in the action before me and has no penalty. I like that we can repair our choppers...heading back to base is cool. I hate the idea of base raping and hope that something can be done about it. Maybe a big building choppers could fly into for repairs...its not that hard really. So maybe in future releases this can be looked into...maybe a completely different solution to the problem is better.

solution : make one hit of AA missils = one chooper down .

Or make sure if you engage an enemy chopper, shower him in Hydras too

But yeah, I think repairs *should* take longer. It'd be good if it cost tickets, too.

keep the helo pads i just want the repair stations for armor and a longer re-arm repair time for choppers at the helo pad.

I'll take it a step further....

Rearming should be done by wrenching the supply crate or other object that contains the ammo.

This simulates taking the ammo out of the box and placing it in the tank. Small arms doesn't need to do this, but Tank/APC ammo is cumbersome and HEAVY. IRL it takes 3-4 men to perform the task. This makes the troops doing the rearm/repair much more vulnerable, as they should be, for such a task.

Of course, if wrenches are removed from crewmen, they couldn't wrench the supply crate for ammo. On the other hand, IRL crewmen are trained to repair damage to their tanks on a limited basis. Maybe the crewman wrenches could stay, but lower their repair effectiveness by a factor of 10. This still solves the problem of "solo tank repair" but also makes it possible to repair a tank in the field even though it will take much much longer.

Wolfe wrote:I'll take it a step further....

Rearming should be done by wrenching the supply crate or other object that contains the ammo.

This simulates taking the ammo out of the box and placing it in the tank. Small arms doesn't need to do this, but Tank/APC ammo is cumbersome and HEAVY. IRL it takes 3-4 men to perform the task. This makes the troops doing the rearm/repair much more vulnerable, as they should be, for such a task.

Of course, if wrenches are removed from crewmen, they couldn't wrench the supply crate for ammo. On the other hand, IRL crewmen are trained to repair damage to their tanks on a limited basis. Maybe the crewman wrenches could stay, but lower their repair effectiveness by a factor of 10. This still solves the problem of "solo tank repair" but also makes it possible to repair a tank in the field even though it will take much much longer.

How bout going even one step further. How bout instead of dropping supply crates from the sky, use the commander truck for resupply. When you call for supplies, the commander has to bring them to you, and then you have to get out of your vehicle/tank and wrench the crate that is dropped onto the ground from the commanders truck. Once the crate is dropped from the back of the commanders truck he is free to drive away to a more covered area. This will cause you to find a protected area before calling for supplies so they aren't left out in the open. More realistic that way.

R

I'm in support of the notion that only a supply truck or repair truck can repair helos and tanks - wrenches should be used to pick up mines and make CP's, that's it. If your tank takes a solid hit and the battle was won, you would be stupid to advance unless the situation was desperate, no matter how many shiny that wrench is.

Also, as a side note, I wouldn't have a problem with requiring that someone be within the vicinity of the helo for it to rearm (either the pilot or an engineer), simulating the act of physically remounting munitions.

77SiCaRiO77 wrote:solution : make one hit of AA missils = one chooper down .

I think that the damage would help especially with the current jet vs. AA problem... Perhaps, increase the damage that a single missle will do and maybe just speed them up a bit so that the jets cannot simply go "Wheee I'm too fast haha suckers" and perhaps lock their "sight" to their target so that it won't veer off to a friendly and obliterate him so that AA will be much more feared and would have the effect that we're waiting for in .7; it is possible right now to hit a jet with an AA missle, but due to the "vBF2 realistic missle damage" (hah, vBF2 and realistic in one phrase? nooo) that EA decided a jet should take 3-4 AA missles. Ohh, ohh, let's make helis take 3 missles too.

I would speculate (note: speculate!) that a single AA missle should either obliterate an air vehicle it hits or get close to doing so... I would think an explosive being rammed up a jet's exhaust or exploding on it's wing would be a really bad thing.

Another thing I'd like to see; A real reason to bail out-after taking heavy damage in a jet you don't seem to "burn" but continue to fly without problems; Perhaps at 80%-90% all engines should fail and you basically glide down (shaky, even? ) and have some time to bail out instead of only being completely obliterated or seemingly undamaged if you are attacked. Possible? I would love to see it as an alternative to jets shaking off a near fatal attack and then just landing.

Celestial1 wrote:I think that the damage would help especially with the current jet vs. AA problem... Perhaps, increase the damage that a single missle will do and maybe just speed them up a bit so that the jets cannot simply go "Wheee I'm too fast haha suckers" and perhaps lock their "sight" to their target so that it won't veer off to a friendly and obliterate him so that AA will be much more feared and would have the effect that we're waiting for in .7; it is possible right now to hit a jet with an AA missle, but due to the "vBF2 realistic missle damage" (hah, vBF2 and realistic in one phrase? nooo) that EA decided a jet should take 3-4 AA missles. Ohh, ohh, let's make helis take 3 missles too.

I would speculate (note: speculate!) that a single AA missle should either obliterate an air vehicle it hits or get close to doing so... I would think an explosive being rammed up a jet's exhaust or exploding on it's wing would be a really bad thing.

Another thing I'd like to see; A real reason to bail out-after taking heavy damage in a jet you don't seem to "burn" but continue to fly without problems; Perhaps at 80%-90% all engines should fail and you basically glide down (shaky, even? ) and have some time to bail out instead of only being completely obliterated or seemingly undamaged if you are attacked. Possible? I would love to see it as an alternative to jets shaking off a near fatal attack and then just landing.

I support this idea. I think one AA missile hit should disable the airplane, forcing it's crew to bail out.

If an AA missile hits a chopper I think it does put it into critical condition, forcing the crew to bailout. An AAM missile fired from another chopper does not do this though. I was playing Kashan the other day and took a BIG thump after being locked up. I can only assume as I sped away that it was indeed an AA missile from an AA gun...not another chopper. It put us into critical condition and we exploded a few moments later.

How are tank crews gonna get rid of mines then? Please say your somehow making the spade the instrument of such a task and your gonna give them one, go on.

AnRK, the crewmen cant remove mines in 0.6, also they cant repair bridges and it takes atleast twice the time to repair a tank with the crewman wrench than with the engineer wrench.