Project Reality Forums

Posted: **2007-09-03 00:11**

Last few games I've played I notice I spend more time doing recce, recruiting personnel and actually building a base of operations opposed to Commanding.

I suggest that a Logistics officer kit be made, which has the same abilitys as the CO to place Assets. This kit would be requested by the Commander and could than be picked up by a player, this means it's entirely his choice as to how he wishes for the assets to be placed. Thoughts?

Posted: **2007-09-03 00:13**

Interesting.

Posted: **2007-09-03 00:13**

Interesting idea. We have talks amongst the DEVs about this issue.

Posted: **2007-09-03 00:44**

I don't like the idea of having to have the commander request the kit, but other than that it's kind of cool.

What about having a limited Logistics kit, that only SL's could request (just like officer kits), and each team only gets ONE (and if an enemy picks it up they are warned and die or something). Then a squad could be the construction squad. That way the guy placing all the stuff can have engineers in his squad that he can easily communicate with all the time, and who can shovel and wrench all his stuff.

Furthermore, what if the Logistics SL is only allowed to place outposts, bunkers, firebases and AAA guns within 100 meters of a BUILD *THING* HERE waypoint. So the commander still chooses where to put those items (within 100 meters) and the Logistics guy chooses the exact location of the item inside that range. I guess this would be done essentially with a vBF2 style commander dropped "supply crate" type item that is invisible and immaterial and probably drops to the ground in 1 second, and that has some kind of "Build" map icon, just like the supply crate one in the map and 3d map.

The logistics SL would place and use the support truck in the exact same way as the commander currently does. Meanwhile, the commander should get his own little jeep kind of like the current engineer jeep, that spawns at the main. And the commander could no longer place any assetts, and there would be a commander kit.

Posted: **2007-09-03 00:48**

Yep, all nice ideas and pretty close to what we discussed.

Posted: **2007-09-03 02:44**

I think its a good idea, also I think the co should get whatever kit he needs, instead of having to hunt down an officers kit to do stuff, that is also distracting. I found myself hunting down kits and building stuff instead of commanding troops.

The hardest part of building is actually getting people to help you build stuff. You'd think a spawn point would be enough incentive, but that is not always the case. But you also have to be careful about delegating stuff from the CO also. Its a fine balance, because in other mods like POE, when all you do is command, no one wants to be the commander.

The original concept of allowing the commander to build was awesome, more people took the commander role because of it, but then it became a task that took much time because you had to recruit people to help you. The commanders assets are a huge addition to bf2 and PR needs huge credit for this, while other mods keep taking away from the commander even from the vanilla offering.

The future of the bf series is in the co, sl setup, adding more commanding spots to delegate duties for a large mass of people. Unique roles will push people to do their job. Otherwise the people on the team can tell them to do something else if they aren't doing their job to free it up for someone else to do.

Posted: **2007-09-03 06:38**

Salad_Shooter wrote:But you also have to be careful about delegating stuff from the CO also. Its a fine balance, because in other mods like POE, when all you do is command, no one wants to be the commander.

But if the CO would say like "Build a bunker here" with an icon on the map, and then the logistics SL had to go build it, then I think the power to build and where to build is still in the CO's hands, so, you're not really taking it away from him.

Posted: **2007-09-03 07:10**

'[T wrote:BludShoT;475383']But if the CO would say like "Build a bunker here" with an icon on the map, and then the logistics SL had to go build it, then I think the power to build and where to build is still in the CO's hands, so, you're not really taking it away from him.

While that's true...but it's as easy as dropping a waypoint. A true delegation of duty. "Here's what you do and where, you figure out how to get it done" sorta deal. It's not necessarily going to be easy, or any less of a hassle..but at least the logistics of that particular building would be taken care of by someone else.

(Side note: I'd definately say to have limits set so an abusive SL doesn't end up rage-building everything he can in an attempt to waste as many tickets as possible. It's hard enough as it is with a single overzealous CO.)

Posted: **2007-09-03 09:15**

Ecko wrote:Last few games I've played I notice I spend more time doing recce, recruiting personnel and actually building a base of operations opposed to Commanding.

I suggest that a Logistics officer kit be made, which has the same abilitys as the CO to place Assets. This kit would be requested by the Commander and could than be picked up by a player, this means it's entirely his choice as to how he wishes for the assets to be placed. Thoughts?

I suggested the officer idea about 3 days ago in my Kashan feedback thread... thanks for credit =)

.Intense wrote:I played Kashan extensively last night and after hearing horror stories of handling the jets and wolverine class jets I have to say I was dually impressed. Couple of strong points and weak points from the giving end of the AC10 fire and the receiving end of the AC10.

Couple of problem areas:

The Airfields on the 64p are the same as the 32p mapsizes, I didn't know that 32p map size did not spawn the jets... So I waited 35 minutes before someone told me that the 32p never spawns planes/jets.

The Airfields are a deathtrap for re-arming planes. It takes 30 seconds after a successful landing and lining up a take off vector before they can compete against the jets buzzing around the area... I know this is an intended game-mechanic to throttle the amount of "Jet whoring" but when I am rearming the Mig or the Wolverine Class jet sitting on a runway, the opposing air assets are quick to blow me off the runway. Considering the respawn timer on the Wolverine Class Jet is 20 minutes and 10 minutes (?) for the F16/Mig class jet, this becomes a very problematic issue. I have noticed on Al Basrah that the C130 Transport is on the runway in the "no fly" zone (Are you trying to desert?) and the 10 seconds begins to countdown. Perhaps because of Kashan's size (10km^2?) the Jets can travel fairly quickly accross the map @ 1400 - 2200m/s (At full throttle) They have a luxury of vertical as well as horizontal playing field and I honestly think the "Countdown to punish" for a jet should cover the entire airfield for the opposition and has a 3 second to punish system to discourage the spawn camping. I know what you're saying, it's a reality mod.... FOR A GAME. I am sorry, I do not enjoy the benefits of reality so grossly to encompass as that part of the game is intended and it won't be changed. It just isn't fun having to adapt to rearming by landing, when I can get my *** handed to me sitting there not able to launch effective counter-measures or evade the attack by out-maneuvering the tango.

Armor: Let me congratulate the PR Dev team on a job well done in the armor system... It is by far the most engaging system involving tanks that I know of and it certainly beats not having a 50cal gunner on vBF2. However, The distance these tanks to be effective is ludicrous... Considering the US Blackhawk Helicopter can travel at what 400m/s if done correctly... a tank barely moves 20m in 2 seconds.... That means 2000m travel to a contested flag would take over 8 minutes.... then to have tactical advantage against your opposing armor.... I know this is the map size... but the armor spawns should be closer to the contested flags and should only spawn there... It will promote front-line skirmishes and new types of tactics. Movely quickly to capture that objective before the enemy does gives you a small advantaged in terms of combat prowess at least for a few minutes making survivability for infantry that more plausible. Kashan is a Vehicle heavy map... why would you make the vehicles so ridiculously out of the way. I often choose an APC or a HUMVEE over the Abrams because I can get to a spot faster, I don't need a crewman's kit to drive the HUMVEE and I provide a spawning base for my team with the APC.... A possible solution could be a C130 airdropped mechanized unit ability for the commander, the more objective points a team holds, the more Heavy Armor can be airlifted to the front lines. Perhaps even the engineer class can set the dropzone with a smoke grenade... Something that can be seen in the air to depict real simulation of line of sight... World in Conflict has an infantry unit that can direct artillery strikes for precision artillery... but it's a specialized class and I think that there should be a Logistics Officer kit that can supply the C130's with dropzone coordinates that can only be used WHILE the LO (Logistics Officer) is within 50m of.

The Good things: The Bunker Complex... this makes a GREAT base of operations for infantry to coordinate in because of the bunkers protection against air and medium to heavy vehicles... It promotes infantry skirmishes and more thought out offense and defensive tactics. A strafing Wolverine class jet is hardly able to keep those 2 flags from being capped unless they fly below 20m right off the mountain range and pull out before slamming into it's concrete walls (Making it very in-efficient.

This is all I could come up with from last nights' gameplay and I believe Ill be commenting on Al Basrah tomorrow or the coming days.

Thanks!

Posted: **2007-09-03 13:38**

.Intense wrote:I suggested the officer idea about 3 days ago in my Kashan feedback thread... thanks for credit =)

Did you? I didn't actually see that post. Guess great minds think alike

Posted: **2007-09-03 14:35**

but what happens if a noob gets the kit and starts building stuff where they can be easily destroyed and get the team to lose tickets??!!

Posted: **2007-09-03 14:43**

The way I see it, is the commander has a busy time (depending on the map) the first 5 minutes of a round. The problem (most time consuming task) is getting people to build the assets.

After that you can concentrate on commanding.

It also separates the men from the boys

Posted: **2007-09-03 16:13**

'S.P.C-[Reality wrote:-;475649']but what happens if a noob gets the kit and starts building stuff where they can be easily destroyed and get the team to lose tickets??!!

Have some faith in us

We wouldn't do a check only for the kit, we can check if he's a squad leader or not. Also the comm rose is different between squad leaders and squad members, so the grunts wont get the possibility to build anything.

Also, the idea of the commander setting where he wants the asset to be built is another security so noobs wont simply start building anywhere.

Still needs some thinking, but I think is a valid idea.

Posted: **2007-09-03 16:25**

i think having a construction squad leader would help get assets up a lot faster then they are normally.

but will there be a way around the rotation problem of objects or will the sl get an undo button in the commorose like in sandbox for example?

Posted: **2007-09-03 16:29**

I agree with Vikingo. The commander shouldn't be spending all his time telling squads exactly where to go and what to do anyway, that should be up to squad leaders (albeit doing something vaguely like the commander tells him). I thought the point of the new commander system was to give the commander more of a field role, like a company captain or whatever, instead of someone watching GPS feed while drinking his brandy in a studded leather armchair.

Posted: **2007-09-03 17:02**

-How about we let the SLs place some assets as well? Barbed wire, sandbag walls, small things like that. If we got the specialized squads idea up and running these tasks could be given to Engineer Squads.

The commander shouldn't be spending all his time telling squads exactly where to go and what to do anyway

-Not exactly no, but the main point of the commander is to have someone with the big picture who can get squads where they're needed most. With full squad autonomy it usually ends up with three squads on one of the "A" flags, one squad defending one of the "D" flags, and the rest up in the hills doing who knows what(Have any of you noticed this? There's always one or two squads far away from any objective just sitting there doing nothing).

Posted: **2007-09-03 17:23**

...i second that.

Posted: **2007-09-03 18:02**

yeah sandbags and razorwire should be avaliable to squads with some limitations

Posted: **2007-09-03 19:27**

I agree with Viking aswell.
Commanding shouldnt be a walk in the park, it should be a challenge. And the actual Commanding should never be to detailed, in a public game at least.
I find the balance quite OK atm, as long as i take advantage of the exploit to build my own CO-post.

I really dont like the idea of specialized Construction-squads with ditto Officerkit.
It sounds much to dangerous.

Posted: **2007-09-03 20:22**

Yeah I really don't like the idea either. Those squads doing "nothing" may well be flanking or defending a flank or preparing for the next flag or something though so I don't think you can always say they are doing "nothing". I mean it doesn't take up that much time or effort to build stuff. If your playing a really good game you'll most likely have an engineer squad, whom you can get to drive for you anyway, leaving you to command as usual.

Project Reality Forums

Commander getting too distracted.

Commander getting too distracted.