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Realism: How WE want it!
Posted: 2005-12-13 08:24
by visaya
Project REALITY Mini Mod
re·al·ism n. - The representation in art or literature of objects, actions, or social conditions as they actually are, without idealization or presentation in abstract form.
(dictionary.com)
There are no two ways to look at the goal of this mod. To simulate realism we need to get the most realistic functions into the game 100% true to real life or the mod is a "failure". With the exception of some scale factors, the guns should be realistic, the communication, and the teamwork should all be realistic.
A big part that will bring realism to this mod is the community. How do I know this? - I have spent many of my years gaming to look for the most realistic FPS military game starting with Infiltration for Unreal Tournament. I have played enough games to know what tends to work and what tends not to work relating to realism. Some of the contributing factors include good developers (which i see in the PR Devs) and the players.
An example where the players "failed" a mod is Red Orchestra for Unreal Tournament 2004. It started with awesome potential and a very talented team but the community grew so much in love with their perfectly primed nades and exploits that it took away from the good ol' teamwork realism feel.
- What we need for PRMM a community dedicated to realism and nothing else. We can start by doing something as easy as purchasing a microphone to use VOIP and squads and encourage teamwork in the servers so that it becomes the notion of the whole mod community. And when new players join they will take it how we make it or leave. REALISM is not the opposite of GAMEPLAY, a common misconception. The only reason people try to take away from realism is because they die too much for reckless reasons - they suck. However, if the mod is realistic, and the players are all for teamwork and tactics. Then the gameplay will exceed your expectations.
So next time you see someone posting something that strides from realism, question or not if this is someone you want playing your mod. Is he the guy that joins the server, doesn't join a squad, wastes tanks, and loneguns? Well, as the community grows you will get more of them. You shouldn't be scared of losing these "worthless" players because the realism milsim fans are out there waiting for a call.
GET MICS - IMPROVE TEAMWORK ON SERVERS
Posted: 2005-12-13 08:26
by Armand61685
visaya wrote:Project REALITY Mini Mod
re·al·ism n. - The representation in art or literature of objects, actions, or social conditions as they actually are, without idealization or presentation in abstract form.
(dictionary.com)
There are no two ways to look at the goal of this mod. To simulate realism we need to get the most realistic functions into the game 100% true to real life or the mod is a "failure". With the exception of some scale factors, the guns should be realistic, the communication, and the teamwork should all be realistic.
A big part that will bring realism to this mod is the community. How do I know this? - I have spent many of my years gaming to look for the most realistic FPS military game starting with Infiltration for Unreal Tournament. I have played enough games to know what tends to work and what tends not to work relating to realism. Some of the contributing factors include good developers (which i see in the PR Devs) and the players.
An example where the players "failed" a mod is Red Orchestra for Unreal Tournament 2004. It started with awesome potential and a very talented team but the community grew so much in love with their perfectly primed nades and exploits that it took away from the good ol' teamwork realism feel.
- What we need for PRMM a community dedicated to realism and nothing else. We can start by doing something as easy as purchasing a microphone to use VOIP and squads and encourage teamwork in the servers so that it becomes the notion of the whole mod community. And when new players join they will take it how we make it or leave. REALISM is not the opposite of GAMEPLAY, a common misconception. The only reason people try to take away from realism is because they die too much for reckless reasons - they suck. However, if the mod is realistic, and the players are all for teamwork and tactics. Then the gameplay will exceed your expectations.
So next time you see someone posting something that strides from realism, question or not if this is someone you want playing your mod. Is he the guy that joins the server, doesn't join a squad, wastes tanks, and loneguns? Well, as the community grows you will get more of them. You shouldn't be scared of losing these "worthless" players because the realism milsim fans are out there waiting for a call.
GET MICS - IMPROVE TEAMWORK ON SERVERS
Great post and my sentiments exactly. This post bears the essential principles of PR!
Posted: 2005-12-13 08:33
by ECale3
The biggest problem i see with realism mods is when the devs listen to members of their fanbase who are completely clueless and thus derail their original vision in pursuit of a popular mod.
Posted: 2005-12-13 16:00
by GRB
The only thing I have to say, before others do it, is that you have GOT to remember that in the event that pure realism is applied to a game, you lose aspects of gameplay that a lot of people enjoy. A mods goal is to gain the largest community possible and create the ultimate experience based on the mods parameters. We don't want to lose players for adding in an aspect of realism that makes something someone found very fun, not fun any more...
Here's a perfect example - Realistically, when you get shot and die, you dont come back. What would YOU do about that in a game?
There will always have to be sacrifices between realism and gameplay.
Now mind you, PROJECT REALITY's goal is to persue the most realistic EXPERIENCE possible with the BF2 Game Engine. Some aspects of reality are just simply not possible with the BF2 Game Engine. Therefor a level of surrealism has to be applied to obtain a realistic experience.
I understand where you're comming from dude, I love ultimate reality in video games myself! I just ask you to please understand these minor things and try to understand that our Development Team works very hard to make the Mod an awesome experience for as many people as possible...
Posted: 2005-12-13 17:27
by Armand61685
ECale3 wrote:The biggest problem i see with realism mods is when the devs listen to members of their fanbase who are completely clueless and thus derail their original vision in pursuit of a popular mod.
And us realism nuts will be here to counter that!
Posted: 2005-12-13 17:37
by Armand61685
'[R-PUB wrote:GRB']The only thing I have to say, before others do it, is that you have GOT to remember that in the event that pure realism is applied to a game, you lose aspects of gameplay that a lot of people enjoy. A mods goal is to gain the largest community possible and create the ultimate experience based on the mods parameters. We don't want to lose players for adding in an aspect of realism that makes something someone found very fun, not fun any more...
Here's a perfect example - Realistically, when you get shot and die, you dont come back. What would YOU do about that in a game?
There will always have to be sacrifices between realism and gameplay.
Now mind you, PROJECT REALITY's goal is to persue the most realistic EXPERIENCE possible with the BF2 Game Engine. Some aspects of reality are just simply not possible with the BF2 Game Engine. Therefor a level of surrealism has to be applied to obtain a realistic experience.
I understand where you're comming from dude, I love ultimate reality in video games myself! I just ask you to please understand these minor things and try to understand that our Development Team works very hard to make the Mod an awesome experience for as many people as possible...
Of course we don't want "redundant" realism. Stuff like a loader for a tank and other realistic stuff that won't even make realism seem fun. I view most realistic aspects as fun, like dying in one hit from a round, realistic recoil and iron sights, and I'm sure most people who follow this mod do too.
Posted: 2005-12-13 18:59
by Beckwith
Armand61685 wrote:Of course we don't want "redundant" realism. Stuff like a loader for a tank and other realistic stuff that won't even make realism seem fun.
Going by the logic of the person who started this post that would be a requirement. I for one have always felt that things need to be valued, there "realistic" nature or lack there of needs to be valued against what they bring to gameplay. I'm not one for "realism at all costs" it kills gameplay.
As its been said to me before, this mod is not about making a game that is as close to real world combat as possible, but is a
more realistic Battlefield expirience.
Posted: 2005-12-13 19:12
by requiem
Just to set it all straight, we're looking for the maximum realism gameplay allows. We're not in the business of killing a game by making say artillery realistic (in other words BF2 map gone within 10 seconds of round start). In other words, as we chose to retain gameplay we also chose not to become a simulator, by definition.
We extend realism not only in items such as damage from rifles, gunshot sounds or the removable of the Suspense-killer UAV, but also in more discrete ways, i.e. forcing players to work as a team by changing their kits (so that they require each others support). We want to make people regret playing the lonewolf or walking down the middle of the street, and make the player understand that victory is only possible through teamwork and a good combination of the various assets to your disposal. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point and understand where we're coming from and where we're trying to go.
Cheers.
Posted: 2005-12-13 21:16
by visaya
Perhaps maybe realism isnt totally what I'm trying to get at. I want the teamwork experience and the battles to mainly stay infantry with vehicle support and more away from the artillery and uav. Would artillery ever be called if they could blow the whole map to peaces if they had that many units in the area? Why not take it out?
And in response to whether or not I would like dying in prmm and not being able to play (simulating real death) - that pushes it too far because I want a realistic game, assuming that you are taking the role of different soldiers and reinforcements. And i wouldn't want to feel pain. I am for realism within the context of a game -a military sim game which focuses on the infantry.
Posted: 2005-12-13 21:23
by Evilhomer
Alright, now we understand where you are coming from.
You are actually very close to our insight in the way we want to take the mod forward. Encouraging people to act as a team is a hard task in any mod teams eyes, fortunatly from the results we have been getting it looks like we have been going in the right direction so far. this is helpful and encourages us to carry on! Glad to have you on board with us, welcome to the forums!
Posted: 2005-12-13 21:27
by requiem
visaya wrote:a military sim game which focuses on the infantry.
Well we def. won't be a simulator and/or infantry-focused mod. BF2 is afterall about vehicles too. Some maps will be infantry-friendly, but the mod is not being built around that premise.
Posted: 2005-12-13 22:25
by FearedSniper.AE
What about weapon jams lol? that would be awsome.
Posted: 2005-12-14 00:16
by Armand61685
requiem wrote:Well we def. won't be a simulator and/or infantry-focused mod. BF2 is afterall about vehicles too. Some maps will be infantry-friendly, but the mod is not being built around that premise.
Yes and that's what I love about this mod. Equal attention to all aspects of warfare: infantry and vehicle, land air and some sea.
Posted: 2005-12-14 00:26
by visaya
in a rush to post i am sorry for stating that infantry should be the focus. I feel that vehicles are near perfect and they need not much attention - except they should be tested in different ratios on different maps to see what works best for balance/style/type of map. I feel that one of the few playable/balanced maps with the current setup is karkand on AAS despite the mec defense on market (which is nearly impossible due to high ground). All aspects of realism should be addressed including vehicles but i see no good place for arty in the game as of yet - given the maps.
Posted: 2005-12-14 00:32
by Armand61685
FearedSniper.AE wrote:What about weapon jams lol? that would be awsome.
yess
Posted: 2005-12-14 07:57
by USAF-Marshall
Weapon jams would rock. Would be intense to be in a fire fight and have your M16 or M249 jam up so you have to pull pistol and run back and try to unjam it
Posted: 2005-12-14 14:07
by DEDMON5811
I seem to get weapon jams already... Happens usually when im eating and my hands are full of french fries and i cant shoot. I yell "tap, rack, Bang!" and throw the fry in my mouth and start firing.
Posted: 2005-12-14 14:24
by Beckwith
Weapons jams have been discussed before, I think itd be neat every once in a while but dont know how possible the is.
Posted: 2005-12-14 15:09
by Hitperson
weapon jams would be greatbut it would need to have seperate comands for reloading and cocking your gun
hows about you reload with r and then **** the gun with C would be great but you would have to get used to the different comands.