Project Reality Forums

Looks like an equation, and it is

I've recently noticed, that APCs/IFVs aren't the meat grinders anymore, as the crewman wrench was removed and the crew can't hear, what's going on outside. Same goes for MBTs, and while they might have some nice fun killing at start, an engineer will flank them and blow them up to pieces.

Speaking from my experiences as commander on Jabal and Op Ghost Train on Tactical Gamer last night, I first noticed, that when we defended Dam, the APC needed some time to figure out, where the fire is coming from. He also got RPG' a few times, constantly asking for repairs.

Later on, we got to Bridge, but since we already had City and Factory, I decided to build a bunker at City. I kept getting killed, as MEC counter-attack intensified.

So after the attack has halted for a bit, I could not get an Officer kit, as APCs we're all destroyed due the fact, that MEC had Heavy AT south of Factory and the APCs did not give any support, as we kept getting killed, while the APC was looking the wrong way.

I got killed in total of 10+ times, and two particular we're at City under that archway building. I told the team in teamchat, that there's enemy down there, as the was a squad on the roof and after I came back, I got killed again, as no one didn't even notice the MEC support gunner and medic hiding in there :/

Players started complaining, as MEC drove us off, that we should get a bunker etc. which was impossible in practice, as every time APCs came, they got destroyed.

We pulled back to Bridge and lost the round something like 60-0 whilst furiously defending the Bridge.

Infantry will always defeat solo APCs, who do not have any support.
Unless you have a fully functional APC/armor squad, who know, what they're doing...

Next round, as Chinese commander on Op Ghost Train, after securing South Bridge, I decided, I won't waste tickets or nerves over bunkers/fire bases, so I deployed a truck and hid it in some shrubs near S Bridge.

As British started attacking South Bridge, most of the squads were defending it, as British harassed us from everywhere. I told one squad to go over to the north side of the map, deploy a RP and attack North Bridge, as they succeeded, we lost South Bridge and the British squad started attacking Trenches. Later on, we lost both Bridges, British captured Trenches and we again lost the round :/

I got asked by squad leaders several times, what is the squad # doing up there, told them, that their orders are to attack North Bridge, and I was surprised as every time I play Op Ghost Train on EU servers, the PLA always attack North Bridge from north with a RP hidden somewhere near the map border most of the time.

I managed to destroy two GB RPs hidden North and East of Trenches (a sniper gave one away actually, but I did not think, there could be a RP near, found it later on).

Players are lacking SITUATIONAL AWARENESS, since most of the squads got harassed by random Spec Ops lone wolfing around and still had no idea, what's going on, no one flanked, and each squad followed their Squad Leader, who was always on point, being the first one to get shot.

I know, that squad should always stick together, but this is not working, as everyone goes around like a crowd of sheep's instead of being spread out, covering each side etc.

Oh, and Op Ghost Train still remains a challenge, if you're PLA, even if they have the upper hand.

well theres no way for the driver to see whats going on behind him wich is pretty lame, also the gunner has to turn the turret around to see whats happening, i thought most tanks have some way of seeing whats happening around the tank.

EDIT: oh wait for some reason i thought all the tanks went back to the 0.5 versions and i forgot about the camera that you can rotate about, i think APCs are the same though, its been ages since i played PR

uh no, last time I checked, there's a phone mounted on the outside of the tank, so infantry can tell the crew, what's going on. *cough* Mech Infantry squad with VoIP *cough*

But I do agree on APC driver at disadvantage.

i thought most tanks have some way of seeing whats

Driver cam?

why did the wrench get ditched from crewmen anyway? its hard to get yourself a gunner now, before it was easy. they got kills and you could nip out and repair while the gunner covered you.

like a flashback to reality heh

wooly-back-jack wrote:why did the wrench get ditched from crewmen anyway? its hard to get yourself a gunner now, before it was easy. they got kills and you could nip out and repair while the gunner covered you.

So you use an engineer.
And engy wrench repairs faster than crewman.

eh your equation confuses me so much, i think infantry = infantry > MBT > APC, would work just as well.

Sometimes you have bad nights man, it sucks.

Sometimes the teams get stacked on the TG server. You get the veterans on one side and the pubbies on the other side. Best way to deal with is to just play along but more concentrate more on defending rather than attacking. Unless you get strong Squad Leaders that have strong situational awareness skills, and have good micromanagement of their Squad members, your pretty much screwed unless you play defense.

As for the APC/Armor lacking a wrench, its to prevent lonewolfing the armor. People need to play as a supporting role otherwise the overall team suffers. Its no longer run and gun. Just suck it up and follow the armor around with wrench out and cover their 6 with your own rifle.

Can you drive when your engeneer, if yes, people just dont know about it, if not, well, it suck being in the apc because you see no action, and in a tank on the .50 cal, you just get sniped

Engineers can't operate armoured vehicles of course.
If they could there would be no crewman kit

Seems like a good balance to me. They have that massive zoom now so they should hold back more, if you wade into the middle of a street fight surrounded on all sides then you will die and deserve it

I think its the UK warrior which has a driver with no zoom? That works out awfully and 2 man crew in an APC is a bad idea anyway imo.
Just get some good cover when you park and its fine with 1

APC driver position doesn't have a zoom

And having a crewed APC is a bad idea???

Outlawz wrote:APC driver position doesn't have a zoom

And having a crewed APC is a bad idea???

Having 2 crew in the apc is worse then 1 imo. Partly because of the disparity between them in vision levels and also because it does nothing to stop them being very vunerable to rockets.
Just having 1 guy who chooses a good spot, behind a rock or wall is the best situation.

Its not a bug or anything just how I play the game. Really dont like people grabbing a crewman kit and hopping on in, like its a good thing


Put it another way, that 1 extra unnessecery crew member could be an engineer helping all armour to stay at 100%
A definate plus to most pub teams as people who spawn as engineer rarely think to help or even respond

zzzzz.....

If you have a driver, you can keep n the move and escape from ambushes. Also, you can keep on the move, so the enemy can't pin point you out.
Also helps at escaping from the PLA/MEC APC's which are superior to the USMC LAV-25

I have heard people say the apcs are unequal, is that because of armour and its vunerabilties are a larger area

I find its whoever fires first or whoever remembers to burst fire that wins. Ive not noticed one being especially weaker.

Moving more often means an ambush is more likely then defending a well covered point preferably firing over the heads of friendlies who would hopefully stop the sneaky infantary attack factor.

It does require more patience for sure

Back when the crewman kit was first proposed I voiced concern at not being able to repair your own vehicle, and was told that's why the crewman would have a weaker, but still effective wrench. I am very disapointed at the loss of the wrench. Fact is, that on most servers, you will almost never get an engineer to follow you around. Frankly its dangerous duty, trying to stay close to missle magnets while in thin skinned vehicles or on foot. Even in the tournament, where we had 32 players working together, it was very rare to bring an engineer into the game, its a crappy job. You can make the argument that IRL you can't repair like that, but in IRL tanks would never operate as a 2 tank squad in areas with hostile armor and known anti-tank infantry. There just are not enough player slots to fill all the required jobs.

I think that to ballance out the lack of a wrench, C-4 and AT mines should become much harder to use. After all, if we are using the IRL argument, C-4 is not something that every SF and engineer troop carries, and you cannot just throw a mine down and expect it to work. Make the C-4 kit limited, make the AT mines take 5 seconds of standing still to deploy.

[rant]
I worry that PRM may team-play itself into oblivion. If it gets too complicated, forcing large team play requirements down the throats of short attention span players, it will kill the mod. As wooly-back-jack says, its hard enough to get one player to join you as gunner, now you need a tag-along engineer too? I love the complicated nature of play in PRM, but there is a point where it will be too complicated. When that happens, the number of players on servers will drop. In fact, it may already have happened, I don't see the number of players and full servers we had back when 0.5 was released (which is still just about my fav). Personally, the commander has already gotten too complicated. I used to command all the time, not any more, I want to play a game and commanding is too much like work. [/rant]

Outlawz, IRL the phone on the outside of the tank went away with the M1 here in the states. The USMC eventually started to install them, but they are hard to use, as the engine is extremely loud and hot at the rear of the tank. The TUSK (Tank Urban Survival Kit) for the M1 also comes with a phone, but there are not a lot of those out there yet. That said, I wish there was a way to communicate at close range with those around you, especially inside a vehicle.

I agree!!! the only way for APC to remain effective is for a squad to surround it and advance. If you have a SL now you have two mobile RP, if you have maneged to set a RP now you have three. When a Squad defends their APC they are unstoppable, When I have maneged to see the use of this tatic it has never failed and led to victory.