Project Reality Forums

After I've played the mini-mod for a few days now, I have noticed some things tha drain the joy of gaming experience. Now, any of these things aren't exactly major, but when they're combined, it really starts to bother even the players who are very patient.

The biggest issue is the amount of supports - mostly USMC supports, because they carry the probably most unfair weapon in the whole game: M249 SAW. Now, I understand that SAWs are very superior due to their quick firing and heavy in real life and thus in the mod as well. However, approximately 50% of the players of USMC team carry mostly SAWs, and most likely nearly everyone uses it for at least small amount of time.

So, I have a suggestion concerning the limitations of support kits - and to be fair, every other kit as well -. If we start with the assumption that every player is in squad, every squad should have only one SAW. Of course, also other kits should be limited in quantity, but support and medic classes should be represented with only one individual because they have the greatest influence on the other members of the squad.

As for the players who are not in squad... Why not forbidding support and medic altogether and make them choose between the remaining kits?

Unless you come - or have come - with a better idea, I really see no point in listening to this. However, I don't think my requests are entirely impossible to consider.

Great ideas... I totally agree.

I've seen 2 interesting scripts on the internet that might be relevant:
1. force people into squads (kicks them on respawn after a warning if they are not in a squad)
http://bf2.fun-o-matic.org/index.php/Sc ... adlessKick

2. force a limit on a class type (ideally per squad and/or per team)
http://landot.org:8080/landot/sniper/document_view

Not saying those are the right solutions unmodified (one is for snipers) but something can be done relatively easily. Obviously that can easily be worked around by just creating your own squad and spawning an SAW...

I agree these are problems that need to be addressed. Squads should have similar composition to their real life counter parts.

I have seen those scripts and I like the basic ideas of them, however I do not like the idea of people being kicked from the server just based on not being in a squad or using the sniper rifle.

The idea of limits has been brought up several times. I believe it is something the devs are working on.

The biggest issue is the amount of supports - mostly USMC supports, because they carry the probably most unfair weapon in the whole game: M249 SAW.

As for this... The saw is definately a formidable weapon now, and it should be. Before this last patch the sniper was the chosen weapon since it was awesome. It was complained about just as much as the saw. Hopefully it will be back soon. I know the devs said they would be bringing back the sniper rifle when they could figure out a fix to stop eveyone from only playing sniper. I think the sniper should be in the game the way it was if so it would be a definate help against the current saw. Maybe we could also have to require the saw have a support like the 203 pack would have a spare barrel and would have to give the saw gunner the barrell to continue fire. This is true to life a saw gunner in the marines always has an A-gunner who carries his ammo and barrell.

In my opinion I like the way the weapons are. (except current sniper) I do think that there should be limits on classes and those should be filled by persons with higher rank first. Like the commander position.

You know, even though the SAW is uber, I gotta say that it's nothing aginst a well placed single shot with the AK. I mean, there are a lot of tracers coming from that SAW and it pinpoints the location of it pretty easy. DEDMON can back me up saying that tactics overcome equipment any day of the week. Yeahm the auto fire for the AK sucks. But I almost never use auto fire anymore on the US or MEC cause it's just too dang inaccurate.

Is the SAW overpowered? Sure. Can you overcome it? Dang right. There's always going to be something to complain about in any game or mod. I like PRMM almost just the way it is. I got complaints. Mainly the sniper rifle thing (I know, I know, it's gonna be fixed) and mabye making the other support guns closer to the absolute power of the SAW. But then again, I'm dang good with the MEC RPK anyways.

Oh and one more thing. I can't say I've seen very much noob toob abuse either. *thinks about that for a sec* HEY! I THINK IT"S FIXED!!!

Lone Gunman wrote:After I've played the mini-mod for a few days now, I have noticed some things tha drain the joy of gaming experience. Now, any of these things aren't exactly major, but when they're combined, it really starts to bother even the players who are very patient.

The biggest issue is the amount of supports - mostly USMC supports, because they carry the probably most unfair weapon in the whole game: M249 SAW. Now, I understand that SAWs are very superior due to their quick firing and heavy in real life and thus in the mod as well. However, approximately 50% of the players of USMC team carry mostly SAWs, and most likely nearly everyone uses it for at least small amount of time.

So, I have a suggestion concerning the limitations of support kits - and to be fair, every other kit as well -. If we start with the assumption that every player is in squad, every squad should have only one SAW. Of course, also other kits should be limited in quantity, but support and medic classes should be represented with only one individual because they have the greatest influence on the other members of the squad.

As for the players who are not in squad... Why not forbidding support and medic altogether and make them choose between the remaining kits?

Unless you come - or have come - with a better idea, I really see no point in listening to this. However, I don't think my requests are entirely impossible to consider.

In my personal opinion, class limits are a necessity for realistic gameplay, as is playing in squads. I completely agree with what you say.

I would like the LMGs to be exactly matched to their real life counterparts, as long as class limits are utilized.

DEDMON5811 wrote:I have seen those scripts and I like the basic ideas of them, however I do not like the idea of people being kicked from the server just based on not being in a squad or using the sniper rifle.

Rather obviously the players would be kicked back to a default class, rifleman.

Anyway, I agree completely. The support weapons in particular are realistically WAAAAAAAY to powerfull to be free of choice (well, except the PLA lmg as that has just as crappy accuracy as in BF2 vanilla for some reason). The M249 should be limited to 1 per squad.

Well dawdler obviously the players are not just kicked back to a default class by using those scripts. If you open the script and read it states in the first line what is the Obvious outcome of the script...

landot sniper limit mod keeps track on the number of snipers per team. Extra snipers will be kicked without warning, but will not be banned from rejoining the game.

This is the only problem I have with the script and that is what I was stating. I love the idea of limits to weapons in squads.

Yes, but with a similar implementation in PRMM that would be unnacceptable. So its really no problem at all.

Assuming you actually CAN force a player onto a class... I cant imagine a logical reason for just kicking if that is possible.

Would it be possible for squad leaders to have the option of assigning the roles of players in their squad. maybe in the squad managment window so the leader could set what player gets what role. it's kind of annoying what your under fire and your counding on player "X" to be a medic be he has respawned as a snipefor some reason.

Maybe thats too much power for a squad leader, but it could work with some tweaking...

Juhani.fin wrote:Maybe thats too much power for a squad leader, but it could work with some tweaking...

which should be implemented for teamwork and order.

Lone Gunman wrote:....
So, I have a suggestion concerning the limitations of support kits - and to be fair, every other kit as well -. If we start with the assumption that every player is in squad, every squad should have only one SAW. Of course, also other kits should be limited in quantity, but support and medic classes should be represented with only one individual because they have the greatest influence on the other members of the squad.
....

Nice Idea!
For soldiers not in a squad only rifleman and sniper. Then in squads limitations of classes llike "only one supporter per squad".
With such a system you don't have to totally equal all weapons and have some classes with superior firewpower (the M249 should be extreme deadly but without a chance when not covered by a squad).

I also would players not in a squad limit to rifleman only and restrict the snipers to be in a squad!

I think the sniper class should be limited to maybe 1 per team and then have a marksman class which functions with a squad having an m14. As for the saw, I think it should be more accurate, the recoil is totally unrealistic (America's army anyone?). But only with class limits of course, the ratio of saw gunners in real marine squads to regular riflemen is very low.

Yes you are right.. and the supporters never move alone, they have an ammo carrier too?
i'm not sure about the M249 gunners, if they have an ammo carrier with them

EDIT: It would be nice if you had differend kind of squads in your team whitch you could join in....
Like, support squad, rifle squad, reacon squad, mortar team etc.
Ofcourse PR has to make more kits... it woul be more fun if you had more kits to choose from..
extra kits would be
rifleman (M16 with some grenades, basicly the assault dude without the GL)
pilot (dude who can use tanks and air vehicles, other kits can only use jeeps and other light vehicles..)
Mortar (a soldier with mortar)

i play mostly medic and specops nowadays because when i unlocked the PKM i though man this is shit

I like trufret's idea, if the players can't agree on what the SL is going to make them then they can leave that squad for another, this makes the SL need to have leadership and organizational skill to keep everyone happy.

But I guess it comes down to this: is it possible?

is it possible to have the squad leader decide on the kits for the squad (within reason because if you had so many of somthing that would limit it).

The reason a squad leader assembles a team of assault specialists, fire support specialists, and medics is that this combination has been shown to win battles. If every soldier chooses the fire support weapon over the other options, and those soldiers win battles, then the fire support weapon is not accurately modeled in comparison to the other weapons.

Please note that while I like the concept of the PR Mod, I haven't had time to seriously weigh the advantages and limitations of each weapon. I think the "boresight" accuracy is a good idea, but if recoil and linear movement are the only factors in limiting accuracy, the "realism" factor is limited.

The reason not every soldier weilds a SAW is that the SAW, while an excellent choice for long-range fire suppression and rapid infantry takedown, has the close-range handling of a halberd with a Mongol still stuck to the blade. If you're aiming a SAW, and look over your right shoulder, and an enemy infantryman holding an AK101 is looking at you from the same position, that infantryman will kill you, because he can bring his weapon to bear and line up his target *much* faster than you can.

If you have a SAW, and your buddy has an M16A2, he can take down or pin any flanking forces, while you set and aim your weapon to eliminate them.

Again, it's possible that the handling differences are already in the mod, and I just haven't spent enough time with it to notice them, but those differences, implemented properly, could make a support kit stick close to an assault/medic/spec-ops without making the SAW the poor man's knife that it is in the basic version of BF2.

-c.