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Only reason why hes called "Support" is cos "Automatic Rifleman" is too long for the kit request button

he also have a weapon with a high rate of fire and lots and lots of ammo, only having 1 frag aint really unfair...

I think "support" is short for "fire support"

Personally I think every soldier, regardless of their job, should have at least 2 frags. In real life any soldier on the front lines will have 2-4 issued, depending on SOP.

As for shovels, I think every soldier should have them as well. Every grunt carries and e-tool on their ruck. They are used for building defensive positions, digging foxholes, filling sandbags, can be used as a temporary axe/hammer/saw, and work great for scraping the ground where you plan to set your sleeping gear down.

In regards to support being too "overpowered", I don't think so. A SAW (M60, M240, M249, or any squad-level LMG) is not designed for precision fire. They are designed for area suppression, hence the larger magazine/box/etc. It will take a SAW gunner about 50 rounds to accomplish what a soldier equipped with a battle rifle can do in 1-2 rounds. Yeah, I was a damn good SAW gunner. I could lay down a 3-5 round burst and hit a head-sized target at 150m without a problem. But that isn't the purpose of the M249, so comparing the two is unfair. Think of it like 1 M16 round = 50 M249 rounds. In the end they both carry about the same load of ammo. Grenades therefore should be carried in the same quantity as well.

In real life a US Army soldier equipped with an M16/M4 will carry 7 30-round magazines loaded, a SAW gunner will carry 3 200-round boxes. If you use the 1:50 ratio, the rifleman actually has a bigger advantage over ammo loadout than the AR. We'd be looking at 210:600, or about 1:3. I doubt many grunts in PR with a SAW can fire 3 rounds with the precision of a single round in a rifle.

I'm not for the frag-spammers, but with "support" kits only getting one ammo bag now I see less frag-spamming anyways.

Ninja2dan wrote:As for shovels, I think every soldier should have them as well.

Would a field medic be issued a shovel?

i think the support kit should be in the normal weapon menu, since its an underused kit

arjan wrote:i think the support kit should be in the normal weapon menu, since its an underused kit

Then it would be overused and everyone would spawn as support and go Rambo vs. Rambo with automatic machine gun on each other.

Retarded idea.

yes lol suport + shovel=chaos

Ehm...not really Marine94. Don't really see anything wrong with the support class having a shovel. However, everyone being able to spawn as a support would mean a return to the situation from .3 (if I'm not mistaken, only started playing in .4), when you had way too many people with support guns, leading to unbalanced gameplay.

Outlawz wrote:Then it would be overused and everyone would spawn as support and go Rambo vs. Rambo with automatic machine gun on each other.

Retarded idea.

Its a pretty retarded RAMBO idea... :|

However, it might be more useful again in the next version, with the planned changes to accuracy. There seems to be no real problem with the support gun being a request kit atm. There are usually plenty for everybody who wants one, all you have to do is find a place to request it, which usually isn't that hard.

The following has frag grenades:

Rifleman ironsites
Rifleman scoped
Officer
Support (2)
Marksman (2)
Grenadier (lots)

the following dont:
Heavy AT
Light AT
Anti Air
Engineer
Sniper
Medic
Crewman / Pilot
Spec Ops

The only ones on that list that I see should get frags is Engineer, Light AT, Anti-Air and Heavy AT, but we'd have to remap alot of controls to do that so for now theyre not getting grenades. But I do agree with the general statement all ground infantry should carry at least 2 frags.

As for shovel, we will probably see more classes with the shovel in next release

Jonny wrote:Again, however, I dont believe 0.3 had scoped rifles, the support kit would not be as much of a problem. Now it is almost suicide in the open as you are sniped by riflemen so easily. I for one would still go rifleman over support on most maps because I can snipe more easily. In urban situations it is more ballanced though, so may well be overused. I vote beta to test it out.


Philosophical discussions about what happened with this kit in 0.3 are useless, it was a very different game back then, and is about to change much more now. Those arguments against adding it as a reg. kit because of your experience with previous versions no longer apply.

Trust me, it doesn't work like that. Back in 0.3, the sniper kit was also available on the spawn menu. Though every player and his dog still favored the support kit for its' fully automatic, high round capacity, insta-prone accuracy. It was the ultimate weapon in almost any scenario. Even the jack-in-the-box rifleman wouldn't be as nearly as effective if the majority of opponents were carrying LMGs.

Eddiereyes909 wrote:Would a field medic be issued a shovel?

If a cook were to find himself deployed to the frontlines, they too would be carrying an E-tool on their ruck. Entrenching tools are a standard issue for all TA-50, and are included in every field soldier's SOP loadout regardless of MOS or rank.

I am not sure I like the idea of officers having shovels though, they build or order it and the grunts are supposed to build it. They then "supervise" (read stand around barking orders while smoking a cigarette).

I don't know if anyone would issue the medics in PR a shovel though, as not everything in PR is reality-based. I have never seen a medic or CLS carrying an AED in the field. I have seen a few in vehicles, but never carried by a soldier. Yet we use them in PR.