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well the current iron sights on most weapons are made by 2d pictures.
And the only once that feel anything close to right are the m16/m16a2 once.
The Mec and chines iron sights cover more or less your entair view when aiming..

So my question is... is it possible to make 3d (modeled) iron sights that have a realistic view port maby a narrowed Fov.
Only game that have done this right yet is Truecombat (http://www.truecombat.com
And iw seen that AA are now starting to implant something like it in there game.

Iw already mention this to EA but im pretty 100% sure they will not add it into the current Bf2.

What do you guys think about this?

it is possibal, you can go into the bf2 editor, then go into troop mode and if you switch camra views and use the zoom in you can trick it not to bring up the 2d pic for the M4 (only gun u can use in the editor from what ive seen aint played with it much) the prob with it is when you move about your gun is allways moving and your line of sight is never in the middle unless u stay 100% still. also on the M4 you have the old part of the iron sigt sticking up infront of the scope. looks really odd.

Personly i think its fine just to keep with what the engine can handle and stick with 2d iron sights.

so any plans on redoing any of the iron sights thats in now cuz some of them realy fucks your view up alot

It would be nice. But it might not very good. I experimented with 3D ironsights when I was messing about with BFV but the engine cuts of the model when it comes to close (Edit: Uh wait, that was probably EoD on BF1942. Anyway, I remember it was an M16. My memory pwns!).

It looks REALLY sweet though.

In my opinion it's the ZOOM on the Iron Sights that screws it all up.

Allow me to reinstate a thread I had started a while ago: http://realitymod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3153

You might find a few interesting thoughts logical...You might not.

3D "IronSights" would definatly fix a lot of things.

I agree 3d would be neat, but I dont know if the BF2 engine can handle it well, as Rhino said.

Also the ironsights in the game that you posted the link to, in my opinion, don't look great. They look like the soldier is holding the weapon way our in front of their body to be able to make the weapon look that small. If you hold a weapon up to aim down the iron sights I would assume that the weapon would dominate most of your view, since you now only have one eye open and your face is very near to the weapon.

'[R-PUB wrote:BrokenArrow']If you hold a weapon up to aim down the iron sights I would assume that the weapon would dominate most of your view, since you now only have one eye open and your face is very near to the weapon.

Exactly, normally when you look down your sights you close one eye. That alone cuts your FOV in half.

I just think it's the zoom that's doing the damage here..

I would welcome the zoom effect being removed, but if we do that the game won't push the draw distances further into the fog when you're aiming. A reduced zoom effect, to maybe 1.25x or something similarly light. Just to give the tunnel vision and "focusing on the target" feel.

Agreed.

While the complete removal of the sights zoom is questionable, a sights zoom reduction is definatly neccissary in a realism Mod in my opinion.

In my opinion, weapons without scopes shouldn't increase the distance at which any one-person can see in the first place. Now in a game, with limited view distance, things that would normally be able to be seen from certain distances cannot be seen due to this fact in the game..

However, is that really such a bad thing? The game has limitations but, why let innaccurate actions suffice for something that CAN be done realistically, even with the limitations?

The reality of the matter still remains that the zooming action is allowing the player to see farther than they can with normal vision that the game allows. If, IN GAME, what you can see without any type of zoom cuts things off at certain distances, so be it, then you shouldn't be able to see any further without the aid of some type of ocular device.

That's how it is in reality, that's how it should be in any type of reality modification in my opinion. I mean, the only difference is that IRL, you can see A LOT farther than you can in the game.

We lose viewing distance on certain objects, yes, but so does the WHOLE playing field. Those without scopes anyways. So the only players with any type of distance viewing advantage would be those with ocular devices...I couldn't see it any other way.

Map design is also key here.

If veiw distance is the problem, try to keep infantry combat within ranges where the view distance rarely cuts off other players from seeing eachother at distances they should be able to see eachother at.

I think removing the artificial zoom would be ineffective. Some things have to be compensated for in a game, as everyone knows. I've always seen the zoom as kind of an abstract representation of focus. When I am shooting IRL, I am hardly conscious of what my iron sights look like, only that they are properly aligned. They are usually a blur, as I am concentrating on my target. I think that BF2 does a pretty good job of representing that. In fact, I think there are other games that really botch the iron sight. Call of Duty and Brothers in Arms come to mind. Many of the guns in these games are virtually unusable because the sights just block up too damn much of the screen.

I understand IRL that people don't have 6 million dollar man zoom vision, and it does always bother me in movies when they use this effect. You know when someone is looking at something say, across the street and the next shot is like a close up of what they're looking at? As though they have that ability?

Anyway, I figure in a video game, we still have to keep an open mind for abstract concepts. Like vehicles and people "spawning" out of mid air.

You guys should check out http://www.redorchestragame.com ... the best and the most realistic fps out there. I know zoom tries to imitate "focusing" but it's not realistic at all, because in real life, you dont have to keep your one eye closed all the time.. and you can move your head so you can see more clearly behind the sights, so no zoom would imitate that you see more, but still you have the weapon on your shoulder and ready for aiming. If there could be 3 "modes", one on the hip, one on the shoulder but not "focused" that would not be so accurate but still good for close combat, and then the "focused" superman zooming with your eye, accurate shot that you only use for sharpshooting.

Is this a mod or full game? If it's a mod, is there even a playable version?

Red Orchestra was a mod originaly for UT2004. But witht the mod team winning alot of money in a Nvidia moding contest, they started a game company and are now making a new, standalone, retail version. Baisicly, the screens on that sight are of the retail game thats in development.

Redorchestra had yes the best iron sight system of any game out there and the scopes rocked very nicely done i must say...

btw iw just notised that the only gun that have a iron sight thats not 2d is the pistol that uses a 3d model..

so its possible but you need to well maby redo some stuff that EA/Dice havent tought about yet

JellyBelly wrote:Baisicly, the screens on that sight are of the retail game thats in development.

Yes, but the model is the same, and it looks exactly the same as in the mod, only minor difference is that the mod didnt have HDR lightning effect.

and the first version of RO was for Ut2k3.

I actually think BF2 does a pretty good job with iron sights. My experience of firing weapons is similar to Lifetaker's. I don't really see the sights except for the parts I'm lining up on my target. Mostly I'm concentrating right on the target. Compare that to Call of Duty (love that game BTW) where you can read things stamped on the rifle when "aiming down the sights". Sure, the sights in BF2 aren't pretty but they are fairly realistic compared to more aesthetically pleasing sights in other games.

'[R-DEV wrote:IRONxMortlock']Compare that to Call of Duty (love that game BTW) where you can read things stamped on the rifle when "aiming down the sights". Sure, the sights in BF2 aren't pretty but they are fairly realistic compared to more aesthetically pleasing sights in other games.

The point is, that you have 2 working eyes in your head, you can use them to focus in the middle of the sights (as in rl), but if the sights were made like in, say true combat/call of duty/red orchestra, you can still see something behind the sights (like in rl). It's just stupid to have sights real close to your face (as it feels in bf2), the recoil would make the rifle/lmg kick you in the face...

IronxMortlock, i'm 100% sure that guy in your Sig sees alot more, than when you are shooting, with a gun in bf2...

The guy in my sig wouldn't be seeing much else other than his target. One eye closed, the other locked on where he wants to shoot.

However, humans are truely amazing machines. If this soldier wanted to have a wider view all he need do is open that other eye and adjust his focus. He'd be there in a fraction of a second. This is kind of simulated in the game already by taking the sights down. An extra little step between where you move slowly with your weapon ready to fire but have the same wider view would be even better.

That's why 3 modes would be great 1. on the hip. 2. shouldered but not "focused on the sights" and 3. shouldered and focused on the target. 2st one would be mostly used in moving in combat area + for close combat and the 3rd one for sharpshooting. It's stupid in bf2, that you need to lower your aim all the way to hip, if you want to see something behind those giant iron sights.

Qla wrote:That's why 3 modes would be great 1. on the hip. 2. shouldered but not "focused on the sights" and 3. shouldered and focused on the target.

Agreed. Realistic, original and inovative.