Project Reality Forums

In short:

The key to success is in keeping as many of the squad together as possible. To do this, you need to keep the RP alive. For as long as the RP is alive, dead squad members must spawn on it, and remain defending the RP until *at least* four or five (preferably all) of the squad are able to move out in force again.

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Okay, so you've downloaded 0.7. You've had multiple orgasms over the new eye candy (ooooooh, those trees on Fool's Road! *bliss*). You've stroked your shiny new M16 until it accidentally discharged on you. You've kissed the sky in the Typhoon and you've generally used up all the euphemisms you can.

Only now you're in an infantry squad, and you're trying to spawn, and dear lord but that little green marker isn't anywhere to be found! It's enough to make even the 120mm gun on the Abrams fire blanks.

(Okay, so NOW I've used up all the euphemisms I can. No more, promise.)

So, in 0.7 how do you go about using your infantry squad *effectively*, given that you can no longer jump into existance five meters away from your boss?

First off, some ground rules around RP placement:

1. It is the squad leader (SL)'s responsibility to ALWAYS have a Rally Point (RP) up.
2. It is the squad's responsibility to ALWAYS assist the SL in placing an RP.
3. If the RP is taken down, one of two things should happen. Either the entire squad should relocate to a new location to place an RP if the squad are a) together and b) not doing something vital. If the squad are scattered, taking a flag or under heavy fire - JUST the SL and two squad members (SM) should disengage and place a new, temporary RP.

Now, that clear? Your squad must ALWAYS either *HAVE* an RP or be *ABOUT* to have an RP. When you're moving between objectives, place them as you go, so your RP follows you around the map.

Given that you have a RP up, how to use it properly? Well, the hint's in the name - rallypoint. Use it to rally from!

A quick overview of a RP life cycle:

1. Squad move out together from the main base, bunker or firebase.
2. As they move towards their objective (in this case, a flag), they place the RP. They keep moving it forwards (in case of accidents - like meeting an enemy tank) so that if they die, they don't loose too much ground. Less important on small maps, vital on Quinling!
3. They place their final RP around 200m from the objective, so it avoids discovery.
4. They then run around 50-100m AWAY from the RP, in a direction that also leads AWAY from the objective. They are then able to approach the objective from a compass baring that will NOT lead the enemy directly to their RP.
5. 100m out, they get eyes-on the target, suss out the enemy presence, form a plan of attack and engage. Half the squad die in the attack. The other half survive, and take the flag.
6. The dead SMs do *NOT* run immediately to their squadmates. They REMAIN WITH THE RP
7. When the objective is taken, the squad regroup and either defend the new objective or move on together.

Now, point 6 may confuse some of you here, but trust me. The respawning SMs must stay at the RP for two reasons.

First, it means that they can spread out slightly and defend the RP. As three of them have died it clearly means the enemy have units in the area - which puts the RP at risk. By staying on the RP, they can ensure that the spawn point is available for the other SMs to spawn on.

Secondly, it means that should the rest of the squad also get taken out, the entire squad will be together and able to move in for a second attack on the objective in force. A steady trickle of one-man bands moving into a hostile objective are going to get repeatedly taken out. 6 guys all moving in together stand a much better chance of success - which is why we have squads in the first place!


Now, in pretty picture format for the younger player that cannot read, or the older one that's forgotten how to and the middle-aged ones that can't be bothered:

Interesting idea Masaq.

If you have a good squad i can see it working and i've tried to do it on a couple of occasions, espcially when you know the enemy are close by and might find your RP.

I shall be enforcing this tactic in the future.

My very first round in 0.7 was on Danang Oilfields, I spent nearly the entire round defending the West CP.

Time after time after time, two enemy squads kept rolling in on us, every time each of the squads would roll in full-force, all six guys there. They kept pushing us out, we'd have to come back in, pick 'em off at range and start over once we'd cleaned up. Five minutes later they'll roll in again - every time we got near their RP, they'd take us down and relocate. It was epic, and showed me exactly how much benefit there is to be had in all six of your guys moving in at once, every time.

Now all we need are the numptys to up and leave the good decent players left to get on with playing as a team

When I tried this on your server yesterday with a Hesky, two clan guys and two random pubs, it actually worked pretty well. One of the pubs was a bit keen to wander off towards the target I'd called the JDAM in on, but it worked very very well.

Especially when combined with a Nanjing - we'd drive to the rally area, drop the RP, go attack, die, then have the truck near to our spawn point to relocate to another CP if need be,

Excellent advice Masaq - I look forward to trying this out in practice.

Oh, and thanks for the picture. But you know I prefer pie charts .....

epoch wrote:Thanks for the picture. But you know I prefer pie charts .....

There's always one who can't read simple line drawings

epoch wrote:Excellent advice Masaq - I look forward to trying this out in practice.

Oh, and thanks for the picture. But you know I prefer pie charts .....

Try imagining the left-hand cycle as a big slice of pie?

Apologies chap, will be sure to make the next diagram more pacman-esque!

That picture makes my brain hurt




Nah. Good post. If people actually listened and read what you wrote, this would be a great thing in pubs.



n00bzor brainwashing in teh .8?

good guide man, i in particular like the diagram at the end.

Always good to throw humour in stuff related to war too

Bigmoose

Thanks guys, glad it's liked.

Feel free to plug it whereever you see someone moaning that spawning has been wrecked in 0.7 - it'd be good to see more folks checking it out (and hopefully seeing it on servers)

good post

Ta!

God post Masqi.

Its somewhat basic infantry tactic (if you can say that about a PC game), but still very challenging on a public server. I'll try to implement this strategy on the T&T server tonight.

Poor tactic, but nice diagram.

What, pray tell, is the purpose of leaving SMs at the RP when there is a flag to be taken? To give away its position when they are spotted? Why are you abandoning the flag so quickly once it's taken rather than holding till other squads are in position? Why on earth would you even consider leaving a vehicle next to your RP? To do so is wanting it to be found.

Okay, addressing your points in order:

1) Leave the SMs at the RP for two reasons: I - so they can DEFEND the rallypoint. A RP is large, turd-shaped and buzzes. They are not hard to find if you are looking for them. An RP with troops near it is only slightly harder to find and much harder to kill. II - By leaving your "dead" troops at the RP, you ensure that when/if the rest of the squad die, you have SIX guys moving into the objective (again) rather than a steady stream of solo lone-wolves.

2) If the troops stay low, stay observant and if you placed the RP well, they shouldn't be obvious. They don't stay *on* the RP - they can sit 15-20m away from it, with clear line of sight over the rallypoint. If someone tries to knife it, they can kill him first.

3) Quite clearly you don't abandon it instantly- I just said "when the objective is taken...", I didn't say "the second the flag falls..." You wait for futher orders from the CO. If his orders are to defend your newly captured CP, your "dead" SMs move up onto the flag from the RP and assist. If your orders are to move out and move/attack elsewhere, you group up with them and move out, together.

4) You don't leave it directly ON your rallypoint; you leave it nearby that it doesn't scream out "RP is HERE!". You would leave a vehicle near to your RP when the RP is placed sufficiently far from everything else that it stands a good chance of remaining hidden. You would leave a vehicle near to your RP when the map is so huge that the chance of someone wandering into it are very slim. You also leave a vehicle near to your RP when you have a 700m+ walk to your next objective and need to get to it FAST because you aim to take the next flag before the enemy have a chance to dig in.

The tips listed above aren't hard and fast rules, they're guidlines. If you have an RP in a high-risk area (such as inside the bunker complex on Kashan) it makes little sense to have half your squad sat around waiting for you to die. On the other hand, if your RP is 250m away from the nearest flag 800m from the nearest bunker or firebase and you're 1200m away from the next flag in the AAS system - yes, keeping a vehicle handy and keeping your squad together makes sense.

Considering that the biggest complaints about SL spawn and minimap removal have been about the lack of squad cohesion, I completely fail to see how this is a poor tactic when it expressly keeps your squad together and better protected.

A tactic I often use with boat landings is to set up an RP underneath the boat if I can. That way when your squad is moving to shore, if they get shot then they can all spawn back at the boat, run away and try a different line of attack

I find that really useful in case you "stealthly assault" goes FUBAR.

Good guide well said. Too many squadmembers act in the interests of themselves "oohhh I was holding down that squad by myself, you shouldnt tell me to move..." BS.

I'm glad to see you telling folks to places RPs about 200m away from the objective then relocate to attack , I always do this and not a lot of people understand! 100m is a limit not a target

If I may add my 2 cents...

Carefully Choose your RP location and establish several escape routes (not just a roman road to the flag).

Placing RPs in rocks is often silly as its the first place most of us look.

Get the whole squad to spread out and find a place which has a really awkward viewing angle, hills are excellent. My favorite trick is to find a small steep hill with a tree branch/bush on it.
Slide down the hill and place the rp as you slide You get a nice concealed spot inside some foliage and if the enemy trys knifing it they cant climb up to it, nor can they walk down to it you find nades will also roll down the hill, often making the enemy resort to using guns. (Anyone think this an exploitive tactic? I'll stop if so I think it's fair because they can still destroy it.... they just have to be loud )

Tiny details like this often mean the difference between life or death for the squad. as enemies blaring away with rifles soon give themselves away. The extra time to destroy the RP often means the SL can slip away quietly underneath the crossfire to fight another day

Don't fight what you can't win.
We're playing a game so we want to have fun. However running straight into an assault rifle burst and losing the RP because there wasn't enoguh defending troops soon becomes less fun when you have to run a mile to go anywhere. The new Withdraw command is a godsend. Listen to it!.
It's an SLs job to judge the severity of a firefight and decide on the action that will best ensure the lives of his squadmates. Depending on the situation that may be push forward under heavy fire behind smoke, give support, relocate and put more fire on them, withdraw entirely, hold position and request CAS or infantry support, request a "hot" extracttion from an APC, Numerous possiblities!

Its the squadmates job to listen to the bloody SL when hes trying to pull them back!

Especially due to the way most gamers think, a well executed withdraw is lethal.
The attacking squad is drawn into your territory, where you know the lay of the land and you've established yourself, therefore you have the firing advantage. Your standard pubby assumes everyone's dead when the rifle sounds stop.
So when your squad pull out (and it only needs to two of you to survive..) you place a new rally, heal yourselves. and get a whole new perspective on the target.
You can then move in to attack while the enemy squad thinks that you either A. never had a rally Or B. its destroyed and youve gone.
Meanwhile you dig yourselves into a defensive position and start to open fire onto the enemy squad who is moving and now exposed in your old position.

Formation. You Are NOT a Duckling, repeat NOT a duckling!


So don't follow your SL into battle in a single file collumn like one! In some occaisions single file is good because in the worst case scenario, the enemy may only see 1 squadmember as the rest dive down.

Follow the Example of these [T&T] Ducklings...

Check out the cover those guys are giving each other

A better way to apprach a flag...

V shaped wedges, Staggered Zig zag collumns, Diaganol lines (Echalons) Are all very easy
to achieve. All you have to do is make sure you aren't following the guy in front to know where you're going.
A good SL will Say "ok lads what we're doing is.. going here to do this then here.." so all you have to do is keep the guy next to you at a good spacing and make sure he's off to one side of you. You want to make sure your gun is in another direction to his so that the squad is covering a maximum Firing Arc.

Also when nearing an objective, Don't sprint, unless moving back into formation or dashing to cover. Everyone sprinting reduces accuracy far too much and no one ever covers anyone. A slowly moving squad can stick together far easier than everyone doing the 100metre dash

Finally (so its more like $50 instead of 2 cents, big deal )
HOLD FIRE!!!
I try to enforce a rule in my squad that no matter what, if it's a MOVE marker that's down then the squad must MOVE to it holding fire, and only fire if fired upon.
A squad taking pot shots at anyone they see is drawing an audible "line" to thier location and direction of travel to anyone clever enoguh to listen. Squads like that are easy to find and break up before they even reach their objective and by the time they reach the flag the hardley even worth being there.
A squad that can be patient enough to hold fire until everyone is in a position that has maximum effectiveness on the objective can completely overwhelm a defending enemy in seconds.


Move Markers
Hold fire and Do NOT fire unless fired upon. Spot all targets and request permission if you wish to engage. Primary objective is reconaissance. We odn't want to see if they can kill us. We want to see if they could kill us, See what I mean?

Defence Markers
Put supressive or supporting fire towards that direction Whilest moving in another to avoid the enemy.

Attack Markers
Weapons Free. Move to engage all hostile targets. Do NOT move alone. Actively move up with the squad towards the attack marker, call out all targets and engage them with full agression.
*Note*
An attack can very very suddenly change to a withdraw, be ready for this because if you aren't your buddies giving you supporting fire will move away from you and you'll soon be all alone and shot.
So if the attack is to dangerous to continue then be ready to put down fire onto all visible targets and pull back to a safe distance. Prepare then to move in silence to a whole new position to attack from

We're not Sir Edmund Hillary's** Clones. you dont shoot things and attack flags just "because its there". Youre a squad and you think about what's happening and where you're needed to be not where you'd like to be, in order to be very effective as a UNIT and provide support to the team enhance the performance and capabilities of them as a whole.

You can't beat battle stress when youre holding a position and the whole team is relying on your squad to hold back the enemy in that bottleneck for a certain period of time. while they complete the objective. Love it!

If that was two cents, we'd all be rich Sorry to destroy the "quickness" of your guide Masaq lol

Edit: **Respects to the recent passing of Sir Hillary, Excellent climberman

Masaq & Sadist, these are great strategies to write down I use all of these in game most of the time and its quite effective! These should be posted in some kind of guide that can be distributed so more players are playing smart!

I definately second that comment from fuzzhead and thank Masaq & Cain.
A PR strategy guide would be a great addition to the manual for new players. Before .7 I played PR everyday, Now it's been hard to have an enjoyable game due to various reasons (not least of which is loseing connection to the server on a regular basis, due to the amount of other people haveing the same problem i know it was not my rig).
If there were some kind of guide to squad play & tactics, then when a new player comes into your squad haveing read the manual they know to listen and follow SL requests and have a grasp of whats going on, especially if there is a language problem. Without SL spawning it is so easy for 1 non thinking SM to screw up the round for you all without even knowing it.
Most of the tactics mentioned I use as standard and your duck analogey is great Cain it needs posting in the manual.
I will come back and see if things have improved and restore my love of PR.
It has to be the Best MOD I have ever played

What's the thought on some sort of Tactics & Teamwork Player guide bolted onto the wiki? (shamless advertising there, not intended, just good word use... Honest )

Nothing to OTT but if we can establish some baseline ideas for formations and tactics then those who read the manual will benefit loads and hopefully rub off on others...

I'd love to be able to say "Quick get in a staggered collumn!" and have another guy say "oh I saw that in the guide..."

At least readers will all have the same ideas when joining first time... makes them easier to train