Project Reality Forums

-To outweigh the bliss of my "Battle for Qinling" thread I just had one of the worst Commander experiences for some time. The server was Tactical Gamer and the map was Qwai River. My strategy was a Blitz across the river, sending one squad by chopper up to Mine to cap it, the rest to Gov Office. Placed a bunker in Gov Office and sent the squads there to Fishing Village while another squad that had already crossed the river helped build an advanced Firebase north of Fishing Village. This is where everything went wrong as the squads didn't even manage to get to the river in ten minutes. Gov Office was neutralized and even though it had a bunker we did not manage to get it back. The second Firebase was built across the rice fields east of Gov Office for a shorter walk. After a few minutes of attacking Gov Office Processing Facility was lost as well. At this point I had forgotten that I had built two Firebases but that's irrelevant. Someone asked me to build another Firebase not a short distance from the othe Firebase and main, something I declined to do. I was not going to waste tickets and a firebase on something as useless as that, considering that it was far away from Processing Facility. I told him to move the truck closer to the flag but he declined, starting to whine into his mic about the big bad tanks. To make a point I took the truck and moved it at least one grid tile forward(This was when I realized that I had built two Firebases already) and to top it off someone else drove another truck even further down. I asked a squad to take down our Firebase between Gov Office and Main and told the squads to rely on their Rallies, of course none of them did that. Again the squads barely moved forward, the SLs completely failing to set up rallies, and we got no closer to Processing Facility. At this point everyone started to dissent and as I was on the verge of a tantrum(It happens occasionally when I'm Commander) I left.

My initial plan: Advance quickly, capping Mine with one squad while everyone else went for Gov Office. Once those two had been capped I would set up a bunker in Gov Office. I had moved across the river with a Supply Truck at this point and had one squad follow me to build a Firebase. At this point everyone at Gov Office should have advanced to Fishing Village to quickly cap it, and that's where it went wrong.

What happened: The squads barely moved and used a ridiculous amount of time on moving just a few hundred meters. When I saw that they were not advancing I assigned a squad to defend Gov Office(The advancing squads were to the north and south of Gov Office so I didn't think there'd be any problems, I assigned a squad just to be sure). That squad moved slowly as well and a short while afterwards the flag was neutralized. I sent back the advancing squads but they were moving at an equally slow pace backwards. At this point I permitted the construction of a Firebase between Main Base and Gov Office. Then Processing was captured and I ordered every squad(Except one that was defending Mine) to attack it but of course they barely moved once more. Someone wanted to build a firebase at a ridiculous position and I rejected it, he did not comprehend what I was trying to explain to him, I showed him that it could be done and everyone dissented. Then I left.

My reson for rejecting: The location was too close to the main and firebase for me to waste tickets on it. It could feasibly be built a lot closer. And though I did not realize it, two Firebases had already been built. I also showed him that it could be built closer but he didn't seem to care. The location he had chosen was also basically in a hole which meant that it would be very vulnerable to grenades and more easily accessible to APC/Tank fire than one built where I wanted it, close to a sheer cliff.

Reasons for failure: My strategy was a little risky, but I doubt that the Gov Office could have been taken by the enemy had the squads moved faster. The slow pace of advancing squads, later my decision to allow the construction of the firebase, the SLs inability to get those rallies up, and the unwillingness of SLs to follow orders(Destroying Firebase, advancing on Fishing Village/Processing Facility) is what I see as the primary reasons for failure.

-I hope some of the SLs/SMs come by and post their version so we can pan this out. I've played as commander a lot, maybe 20 games just these last four days, and around 80% of those are victories. I am an experienced commander.

That sounds exactly like when I was commander on Kashan. The only difference was instead of moving slowly my squads all congregated in a corner of the map.

I dont think there is a ticket penalty for assests anymore.

No ticket penalty for building.

Also this is the reason I never issue any strategies or orders to squads; no one gives a damn and each SL has his own little plan and I'm here just to use the 1337 golden text, issue logistics (build order) and report enemy locations, if anyone actually says, that there's something there

I did had a plan on how to win Jabal as USMC in 0.6 or at least make it further than Dam, made it up after some rounds, when I saw what US side did wrong etc.
I told everyone where to go, including sending one squad to Dam along with me, where I spawned a truck and bunker then blocked it all off with sandbags and razorwire.
We stayed there, defending it against an onslaught of crazy suiciding engineers, constant RPGing, at one point we lost the APC support, as the guy got Heavy AT'd and it went downhill like mad. And that's only me and one squad, while the rest of the team captured Bridge and happily went for the city, where MEC knew exactly what to do, as everyone got ambushed or killed on the outskirts of the city.

I did tell the SLs what NOT to do, one of them would be leaving the APC in the open and no one gave a damn, then they accused me of being incompetent, as no one could get further than the first street inside the city and it turned into a tard rush fest with our tickets going down faster than you can say 'ticket loss'.

Generally I think, the reasons everyone ignores the commander, are:
1.) Superiority - a SL might have his own ways and plans to advance and does not want some guy to tell him different and sees commander as the tool to achieve his goals (commander build me this and that).

2.) Unreliability - the fact, that I can't hear my own squad over the commander channel, because it turned into a voice chat room, sums up who the person in command is.
Then again, some do not communicate or if you tell them "inform squad 2, that there's an enemy tank there" they won't relay it, then you see the squad getting slaughtered.

Or commanders that go fight with a squad and tell the SL of the squad, where he sees the enemy, while misinforming the rest of the team and giving the headaches to SLs as they don't know, what's going on anymore.

3.) Unexperienced - usually related to #2, but these do not even know, what to do, they try to build stuff without Officer kits or trucks and they usually don't even have a command post up or they deploy it in the middle of nowhere. They also pick the most obvious spots to deploy stuff sometimes.

In short, no one sees the commander as a person, who has a strategy and can direct the whole team, giving them orders or even assigning stuff to each squad and much more.

No ticket penalty for building.

-Ah, good to know.

Generally I think, the reasons everyone ignores the commander, are:
1.) Superiority - a SL might have his own ways and plans to advance and does not want some guy to tell him different and sees commander as the tool to achieve his goals (commander build me this and that).

-Well, I don't issue specific orders to squads(Unless they ask for them) as I prefer to have the SLs maintain some degree of autonomy. I rarely place markers for them unless it's to mark enemy units or a build, instead giving squads general orders and allowing them to accomplish their objectives whichever way they accomplish.

2.) Unreliability - the fact, that I can't hear my own squad over the commander channel, because it turned into a voice chat room, sums up who the person in command is.
Then again, some do not communicate or if you tell them "inform squad 2, that there's an enemy tank there" they won't relay it, then you see the squad getting slaughtered.

-That is a little annoying but as SL I usually prioritize Comm over SMs as they can still hear each other fine. What annoys me is when I'm in a supply truck as Commander I can't hear anything over the engine sound. It's too damn loud I tell you! I've also experienced that talking to one squad only(Choose squad, press B) rarely works and I'm therefore forced to use the comm channel most of the time. Anyone know what the problem is there?

Or commanders that go fight with a squad and tell the SL of the squad, where he sees the enemy, while misinforming the rest of the team and giving the headaches to SLs as they don't know, what's going on anymore.

-I'm always extremely specific when giving enemy locations, either specifying the exact location on the map so that everyone knows who it applies to, or specifying the squad.

3.) Unexperienced - usually related to #2, but these do not even know, what to do, they try to build stuff without Officer kits or trucks and they usually don't even have a command post up or they deploy it in the middle of nowhere. They also pick the most obvious spots to deploy stuff sometimes.

-Come across some of them in my time...

In short, no one sees the commander as a person, who has a strategy and can direct the whole team, giving them orders or even assigning stuff to each squad and much more.

-My experience is that if the Commander does have a strategy then you win more often. As I said in the OP, of all the matches I've Commanded I have around a 80% win ratio. I've also noticed that squads are more willing to follow orders and do less exciting things for the sake of the team.

Would this be different if it was a clan? Public servers are just that, public. Guys/gals that need to unwind. I would agree that with a GOOD commander, the round is more enjoyable and a challenge to both sides.

I usually play a SL and I like being told why the request is being made. I don't have any military experience, however in the real world it is easier to achieve the goals (without being micromanaged) when you have more information. People are not usually drones/sheep/cannonfodder.

But, I hope commanders realize, I am here to blow off some steam. It's a damn fine game without the punks (and too much cheating/hacks).

Corpser wrote:Would this be different if it was a clan? Public servers are just that, public. Guys/gals that need to unwind. I would agree that with a GOOD commander, the round is more enjoyable and a challenge to both sides.

I usually play a SL and I like being told why the request is being made. I don't have any military experience, however in the real world it is easier to achieve the goals (without being micromanaged) when you have more information. People are not usually drones/sheep/cannonfodder.

But, I hope commanders realize, I am here to blow off some steam. It's a damn fine game without the punks (and too much cheating/hacks).

-Maybe vBF2 is a better option for you then...

Tartantyco wrote:-Maybe vBF2 is a better option for you then...

BAH I'm here to stay. You can't get rid of me that quick. If I wanted that type of game play I would have stuck with BF2142.

The team play is what drawls gamers into this MOD.

[Rant]
-Well, it seems that no one's playing commander anymore... Played four games so far, commanded them all. I'm actually physically exhausted right now, all those unruly squads not understanding that you have to defend flags, that I need a Supply Truck to get that nuker/firebase up, that even though I have a bunker up they should still place rally points. And I have to juggle 6-8 squads talking to me and the 'B' button thing doesn't work at all so I have to say everything on the Comm channel, all the while I'm desperately trying to stay alive, bullets flying by me, grenades shaking me up, and to top it off people keep stealing my Supply Truck even though I've made it extremely clear to all the squads that the truck near North Bridge is not to be touched! Then some whiny moron starts telling me to stop talking on the Comm Channel and I explain to him that the 'B' button doesn't work and that I can barely check my CAPS screen because I'm constantly under attack, much less go around muting every squad I'm not talking to. Of course, he doesn't understand anything. GAH! Meanwhile, I have to keep a tight leash on my defense squads as they keep running away from North Bridge and then a SL get completely fixated on taking down a rally point instead of following my order to get back to main for air transport even though I've explained to him that I've sent another squad to take out the rally, which means that the pilot has to sit around for ten minutes doing nothing because of the mania this SL is afflicted with. He finally moves over to the main and gets picked up but when they cross the river the heli is shot down. Of course, having been distracted by this I now find that my defense squad is nowhere near the flag they're defending, that the Bunker there is blown up and that the flag is about to turn neutral. The two squads I dispatched to cross the rope bridge have made exactly zero progress and I find myself having to defend North Bridge all on my own. We finally get North Bridge back just before the game ends. We win, I'm tired... And a little pissed off.
[/Rant]

Being commander is really tiring, especially since you don't leave until the round is finished (don't wanna leave the team holding the bag)

T&T server usually has a good commander in control.

Tartantyco wrote:[Rant]
-Well, it seems that no one's playing commander anymore... Played four games so far, commanded them all. I'm actually physically exhausted right now, all those unruly squads not understanding that you have to defend flags, that I need a Supply Truck to get that nuker/firebase up, that even though I have a bunker up they should still place rally points. And I have to juggle 6-8 squads talking to me and the 'B' button thing doesn't work at all so I have to say everything on the Comm channel, all the while I'm desperately trying to stay alive, bullets flying by me, grenades shaking me up, and to top it off people keep stealing my Supply Truck even though I've made it extremely clear to all the squads that the truck near North Bridge is not to be touched! Then some whiny moron starts telling me to stop talking on the Comm Channel and I explain to him that the 'B' button doesn't work and that I can barely check my CAPS screen because I'm constantly under attack, much less go around muting every squad I'm not talking to. Of course, he doesn't understand anything. GAH! Meanwhile, I have to keep a tight leash on my defense squads as they keep running away from North Bridge and then a SL get completely fixated on taking down a rally point instead of following my order to get back to main for air transport even though I've explained to him that I've sent another squad to take out the rally, which means that the pilot has to sit around for ten minutes doing nothing because of the mania this SL is afflicted with. He finally moves over to the main and gets picked up but when they cross the river the heli is shot down. Of course, having been distracted by this I now find that my defense squad is nowhere near the flag they're defending, that the Bunker there is blown up and that the flag is about to turn neutral. The two squads I dispatched to cross the rope bridge have made exactly zero progress and I find myself having to defend North Bridge all on my own. We finally get North Bridge back just before the game ends. We win, I'm tired... And a little pissed off.
[/Rant]

As I said:

a SL might have his own ways and plans to advance and does not want some guy to tell him different and sees commander as the tool to achieve his goals (commander build me this and that).

I agree, that being a commander is boring and stressful at the same time.
I the past few weeks I had some headaches and two SLs yelling at me, one was simply pissed off and another who was arrogant and accused me of talking back to him and acted like he knows better than me

Then again, you can't really succeed without a commander, even if you have people allying for commander every 10 minutes, so their squad can build a bunker, then they rejoin back, you still need someone to ensure that squads can communicate and everyone knows, what they are doing.

Double Post

Outlawz wrote:I agree, that being a commander is boring and stressful at the same time.

-I wouldn't say it's boring. It's quite fun as long as there's some teamwork going on. But then again, I like yelling at people over teh internets so it's a little funny when things aren't going too good as well .

I the past few weeks I had some headaches and two SLs yelling at me, one was simply pissed off and another who was arrogant and accused me of talking back to him and acted like he knows better than me

-Was one of them called z_i_g_g_y239?

-Didn't I play as Commander on a game with you last night? I think you were yelling(chat-yelling) about the defending squads leaving their flag. I was yelling at them for a long time. Squads that aren't prepared to defend once in a while annoy me so much.

I don't understand why everyone thinks that the B squad chat doesn't work.

I does work, it's just the squadleader not bothering to reply.

Deadfast wrote:I don't understand why everyone thinks that the B squad chat doesn't work.

I does work, it's just the squadleader not bothering to reply.

-It doesn't work because when I use it the squad doesn't respond, when I raise them on the comm channel they respond straight away. It works once in a while but it's too unreliable.

Tartantyco wrote:-It doesn't work because when I use it the squad doesn't respond, when I raise them on the comm channel they respond straight away. It works once in a while but it's too unreliable.

I never had a problem with this.
Weird...

Tartantyco wrote: -Didn't I play as Commander on a game with you last night? I think you were yelling(chat-yelling) about the defending squads leaving their flag. I was yelling at them for a long time. Squads that aren't prepared to defend once in a while annoy me so much.

Yeah, I love the Caps Lock key.

-Was one of them called z_i_g_g_y239?

well known for bad behaviour... but maybe it's just Tourette syndrome - who knows

Ive been Com maybe 2 times now, only because noone else would take the job.
First was Jabal Al BurJ, where i had totally no idea of any kind of strat so i ended up being the support truck deliverer of the one SL that actually had any own ideas. I still pretty much fucked up, kinda felt embarresed, although i figured a build order granting com is still better than none at all.

Second time was on EJOD Desert, the only map ive played enough to know what to do and what NOT to do, like "flanking" to the east or rushing for East City.First porblem occured when i granted a squad to build a bunker at gas station. I noticed my error when i couldnt construct a bunker at ruins, where it wouldve been esential. But none of the squads caping ruins listened to me anyway and rushed on for east city. This missing bunker/firebase in the city propably couldve turned the outcome of the battle.

So the SLs went on ignoring my elevated voice and eventually and inevitably got pushed out of the city. But then, finally, someone flanked far WEST and got a firebase up. From that point on, everything went smooth. All the other squads, being forced to spawn at the firebase coz the 1337ly placed bunker went boom, pretty much stabed the MECs in the back. We took all the flags in an instant and wouldve won if we had had more tickets.

-When it comes to assets I rule with an iron fist, the positioning and security of their location is paramount to success. And when it comes to squads, all I need is that they defend the flags I ask them to, attack the ones I tell them to and build the assets I tell them to, how they do it is up to them. I feel like writing an open letter to SLs...