Project Reality Forums

i know good players dont look at their stats but there a lot of gamers which look at their stats and do all for it to have good stats. they build jhad cars with c4 . so much dont care about their life doing things which no real soldier would do only for points.
easy solution if you are going eliminated you loos all points, you see you teamplay points and your kills and death but the total sum is Zero, nothing.
it think a lot people will take more care about their life.
and it doesnt remove the best pilot...

what you think...

i am so sad of this guys that doesnt care about if they die or not
there must be a way who to stop the oneman squads and no voip users that play alone and driving c4cars and run into mainbase or uncap points

everyone says a increased spawn time wont make people care about their life more, but i know that most people would try a little bit harder to avoid a 4min spawn time then the small one we have now. plus this is project reality a 4min spawn time is nothing compared to what it would be in real life...

Rally point removal is harsh, but so is real life combat. On maps like Mestia it would be hard to get used to, since transport is really hard there.

But on kashan or jabal, or other large maps with plenty of transport avaliable at the start it would be really fun! (but say for jabal, I imagine a slower ticket bleed would be good in this case)

Its funny when you get a reasonably inexperienced squad and you say "ok guys, pull back to this building (places marker) saw gunner, lay down cover fire" They just stop moving like their brains can't handle this concept of trying to stay alive instead of doin a rambo.

I joined just to reply to this topic.



Jihad cars and "Big Red" were put into the game to do 1 thing, blow up in a suicidal firey mess.


I was a little taken back by this thread;

it happens; I can pull up news articles of it happening since 2003 if you would like proof that it's real. (I'm sure you even seen it on TV)


Now back to Project Reality


I don't think it's unfar or unrealistic at all; The brits have HEAVY tanks... and just like in real life, insurgents have IEDs, RPGs, and Suicide Bombings to defend against these attacks.


as for "They shouldn't storm the main base, or VCP"

You honestly think unknown cars have never moved at high speeds towards a camp before?
^^;; they just eliminated before they get too close...





so whats the excuse in PR?

You have Hard Skin vehicles with powerful weaponry, and ground forces that can be just as powerful, why can't you simply take them out?


Maybe play the game realistically and if someone spots a suicide car headed north; report to your SQD leader> to report to the commander> to report to the other sqds that there is a threat moving north and to be on defense.


The insurgents have to defend spawns and caches; theres no reason you shouldn't still defend your assets (as britts).



Bottom line, Suicide bombing the main base is very realistic; the only non realistic part is the Britts can't eliminate the threat in time; which comes off as poor teammanship rather than not enough fire power.


plus, it's a bit fun on the insurgents side to start a map off by taking out the Britts assets to hold them back a bit (so the other insurgents can build a stronger defense)

that is until the bridges are blown

also, my post only goes towards Insurgent maps


I think its unrealistic for the Chinese, Russian, or Mec to do that (although them Russians are pretty crazy )

I think the original proposal is interesting. Thing is though, a lot of points simply come from doing teamwork oriented activities, and so I believe dying would reflect on one's combat score (Which I think it already does). Though, since dieing removes a ticket from your team, then perhaps players should be penalized (teamwork wise) for accumulating deaths. Though I don't think a single death should bring their points down to zero. Rather it should deduct a certain amount of points (Maybe 100 for every death would be good?).

I don't know about the spawn time though. A lot of people (especially newbies) find the current spawn time long for some reason, imagine the outcry if players were waiting up to a minute or more. At best, maybe an increase in the seconds added for each death (2 or 3 would be fine). Though, I think something should be done to counter-act this. A low death rate or accumulation of teamwork points would see seconds deducted from their spawn time.

Personally though I think what we should focus on is not so much as penalizing players for dieing, but also rewarding players who stay alive and take the time to value their lives.

Perhaps based on a "Rate of Death" system, we could reward players who keep their death rate under a certain number. For example, players with a high death rate lose access to certain limited kits. Pilot, Crewman, Sniper, Spec Ops, Anti-Tank, Anti-Air would be on my list; squad level kits should generally remain unaffected.

Another idea is for player's with a high death rate to lose the ability to spawn on rally points (They may still spawn on bunkers/firebases and the main base). Meaning for squad's that stay alive, retreat when they need to etc. they would still be capable of making full use of their rally, while one that is reckless will find themselves spawning further back each time (Might also tone down on the overall zerg rush).

Perhaps in terms of points, a bonus amount can be added to your score based on how many deaths you have. 0 Deaths and you'll be given an extra 1000, 1 Death 500, 2 deaths 250 and 3 deaths 175. Note these points would only be added if the player has been playing for at least 30 minutes (An idea might be to multiply those numbers for being in a game even longer than that). So if the player has been playing for 1 hour without 0 deaths, they receive an additional 2000 points opposed to the 1000 for every 30 minutes. Also note that these points are added at the end of the round.

NVM

zangoo wrote:everyone says a increased spawn time wont make people care about their life more, but i know that most people would try a little bit harder to avoid a 4min spawn time then the small one we have now. plus this is project reality a 4min spawn time is nothing compared to what it would be in real life...

4 minutes?! I doubt many people would play this mod if the penalties were that high.

Don't mess with stuff like that. Or limit kits.

Think of it this way; Lets say someone is camping a spawn or something like that. Or, in general you die right after you spawn.

If you get good sized penalties for that, people would be really pissed off.

i agree a lot to teranovas suggestion but it should not to get so complicated, i think a simple rule that everbody understand.
@casper: and i never spoke from suicide cars i mean c4 cars. someon sit in jeep or hmmvm engeneer place c4 on front guy drive to target and the engeneeer blow up. this is like shooting on your teammate no one force would do this.
and i think to clear this threat is very important. what ever will be the solution would change the gameplay a step closer to realism

Just remove rally points, add more transport, bake for 30 minutes, and holy hell would you look at that! we don't need an artificial suppression effect anymore!

'[T wrote:Terranova7;658359']
Personally though I think what we should focus on is not so much as penalizing players for dieing, but also rewarding players who stay alive and take the time to value their lives.

This is by far the most progressive thinking on the subject. As has been already said, increasing spawn times (or travel times) is not likely to positively impact the longevity of this mod. Nor is it in any way "more realistic."

It isn't about artificial abstractions in game to encourage one or another behavior. Its all down to the culture of the game. People don't play this game the way it is being played just because its how its meant to be played, but because the attitudes of those playing make for a better style of play.

You could take a server of vBF2 players, transplant them onto a PR server without telling them and they'd STILL act like fools the whole round.

If the people playing want to play intelligently then they will. The existing frame work of the mod already makes it so that organized tactically minded groups will dominated disorganized and childish mobs most if not all the time. It isn't about forcing the mob to act civilized but trying to lead them to act intelligently.

Its like when they teach kids to play baseball. You don't put a fence around the base lines to make sure they run the right way when they hit a ball do you?

I'm not giving you an answer, just observing something. Its a culture of teamwork and realistic gameplay that exists here. If people don't want to do it that way then just stick to your clans or trying and personally convert as many noobtards to playing intelligently. I've read more than a few posts of guys who said they made random pubbies into solid squads even if most of them didn't have VOIP.

Theres also something to be said of the penalties for progress. Adding more features faster than the community can digest them leads to issues. For instance new updates always leads to new influxes of noobie members.

If a new guy doesn't know how to use a hammer in the workplace it doesn't mean theres something wrong with the hammer, it just means he hasn't learned yet.

snow wrote:This is by far the most progressive thinking on the subject. As has been already said, increasing spawn times (or travel times) is not likely to positively impact the longevity of this mod. Nor is it in any way "more realistic."

It might be the most progressive way, and we have been talking about it previously. To this day I have never seen a suggestion of a decent reward for staying alive.

And well.. yes long travel times are realistic. Do you really think that in Iraq when soldiers go on an operation they drive 2 minutes and are next to the enemy? Also long spawn times might not be realistic since spawn time isn't realistic, but it might lead to more realistic behaviour.

I'm all for increasing spawn times. 1 minute, 2 minutes, 5 minutes.. I don't care as long as players start to think.

But is it also maybe not fair to increase spawn times for those who do play right? If I have a crappy SL that leads me into hell and I do the right thing, follow him, die, then I get punished for playing it just the way you should -- following orders.

And what about spawn camping? It happens. You might say you need admin to deal with that but well you need good SLs for good squads and good Commanders for good games. Any attempted solution to noob gamers punishes the proper ones.

[R-CON]CAS_117 wrote:Just remove rally points, add more transport, bake for 30 minutes, and holy hell would you look at that! we don't need an artificial suppression effect anymore!

I would enjoy trying out a couple of round without RPs, or at least without them acting as spawn points.

I'm not sure about removing the suppression effect tho, alot of ppl who have been shot at have mentioned that it might simulate the fear etc of the situation. Modification certainly, removal maybe not.

@Pfunk, the baseball analogy was rather good. But the RP is just a convenience rather than something really realistic. Its just balancing gameplay with realism, kinda like modifying the gravity constant in a game of cricket you might say

PFunk wrote:But is it also maybe not fair to increase spawn times for those who do play right? If I have a crappy SL that leads me into hell and I do the right thing, follow him, die, then I get punished for playing it just the way you should -- following orders.

you died. You deserve to be punished. Yes you did do the right thing but you weren't good enough at it. Every single time you die you did _something_ wrong.

I get what you are saying, but personally I wouldn't mind waiting a little longer each time i die if for once the dreaded blue mob would be organized.

PFunk wrote:And what about spawn camping? It happens.

it happens but it happens extremely rarely. I can't even remember the last time it happened to me.

PFunk wrote:Any attempted solution to noob gamers punishes the proper ones.

true. However usually the solution is something that punishes the noobs more than the proper ones. In this case the noobs die more often and therefore they get punished more.

I came up with a solution that would mostly get rid of the problem of punishing proper players. Instead of increasing the spawn time you increase the additional spawn time which you get when you die.
Eg. right now: you die 5 times it's 30+5x1 seconds = 35 seconds
new system: you die 5 times it's 30+5x3 seconds = 45 seconds.
so basically instead of +1 second you always get +3 seconds.
(might be smart to change the default 30s spawn time to 20 or 25 seconds in this new system)

this way if you die constantly (=being a noob) you get a fairly long spawn time and if you die rarely (= being a good player) you don't really notice the difference.

however most people seemed to be against this idea.

oh guys, i know what you mean, but more punish or waiting for spawn or a vehicle isnt really nessesarry i think!

If the punish for a death is to hard, i think it happend the opposite from that what you want with the changes.

Think about this, if i would be punished so hard for a death i would change my gameplay to a very deffensive play. I think thats what you want with "care 4 your lives" but it makes the game boring if no one takes a risk in the fight.

Then the game changed to hide and seek only then. And thats not what i want...and i think very ppl agree with me.

The Game called PR, but its is still a Game, and you cant copy it 100% from RL.

So let all as it is now, because Spawntimes of 4 Min or only spawn in main is so stupid to play then...

You never get the crazy ones or the noobs away from the server. So dont make changes that is pain for all, and not only for the guys who dont understand the way to play the Game...