Project Reality Forums

What if you could 100% eliminate prone spam?
What if you could 100% eliminate run'n gun?

UPDATE:

You can.
I did.
Move while shooting with deadly accuracy.
Iron sights more useful in CQB than scopes.
Run'n gun & prone dive reduced by 90%.

Stay tuned...


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Please disregard the information below. It is the original post which no longer applies because a new method has been developed.

You can.

By increasing the movement deviation while proportionally increasing the rate at which it narrows to a point.

The effect:
Any x/y movement (forward/backward, left/right) causes your weapon to shoot into the air or into the ground. Movement of your mouse is not affected, so you can still track moving targets or spin around without penalty. After moving, a 1 second pause allows you to hit a target 10m away. A 2 second pause gives the weapon full/normal accuracy, allowing you to hit targets far away, as normal.

In other words, a stationary soldier will always kill an enemy soldier on the run, and has 1-2 seconds to kill that enemy solder after he has stopped. After that, the enemy soldier has just as good accuracy as the stationary soldier. This places a significant advantage to the defender, far more than currently exists.


Testing results:
Six of us tested this feature. After hundreds of attempts, the number of run/prone shooting deaths was zero. The defender (who didn't move) ALWAYS killed his moving attacker who attempted to shoot while moving, or shoot immediately after moving (not waiting the 1-2 seconds), even at point-blank range.

Additionally, it also eliminated the peek-a-boo shooting tactic, where a player side-steps back and forth while looking through a window then headshots you. The peek-a-boo player is forced to stop for 1-2 seconds to aim which was plenty of time for the motionless player to pick him off.

The catch:
Since any x/y movement makes the weapon shoot the sky/ground, you are not able to crawl/shoot or walk/shoot without waiting that 1-2 seconds. For example, standing and looking through the scope while slowly walking forward would have 0 accuracy until that player stopped moving for 1-2 seconds.

The question:
Would you trade the ability to walk/shoot and crawl/shoot to 100% eliminate run'n gun, prone spam, and peek-a-boo shooting?

What about CQB?
Under the tested deviation model, walking from room-to-room and shooting targets while moving was not practical without waiting a second to fire. Now, I have played with the settings and it is possible to acquire a middle-ground (moving + killing targets 5-10m away) but that also means a prone-diver could prone dive at your feet and kill you.

Thoughts?

Eliminate the prone spam is a dream. The PR team should put it in a test release and see what most of the testers think about it.

I'm all for it.

What about moving with your sights up?

Is it affected as well?

Deadfast wrote:What about moving with your sights up? Is it affected as well?

Yes, that's the catch. Any movement whatsoever, regardless of stance, will cause your deviation to be affected for 1-2 seconds.

Lets save this for a test session.

Please do.

Hmmm.

I suspect the law of unintended consequences would come into play here. In theory, it sounds excellent - everything that the mod needs.

In practice, it makes clearing buildings completely impossible if the defender can keep far enough away from grenades being chucked through doors, windows etc.

In practice, it means that instead of prone diving the next best thing in close quarters will be to run around street corners and wait for your target to follow you; because they'll be unable to shoot you at all as they come around.

In practice, it makes it likely that public play will crawl to a virtual standstill as the majority of players take to high positions and stay still in order to wrack up kills instead of getting bodies onto flags to capture them.

I'd love to be proved wrong, but I can really see this being detrimimental as the suggestion currently stands - and it's just as unrealistic as prone diving. Soliders can fire semi-accurate shots whilst moving slowly. It's not ideal, sure, but it beats standing completely still.

In short, this would completely reduce combat to "whoever sees the other guy first". Two people moving, first guy to lift his finger off the move button will win the engagement - not the best shot.

yes it is highly unrealistic to get a huge deviation when moving and it will be a campers game.

Removing insta prone is easy just make a small delay when you can shoot like one second then the guy standing will be the one going out victorius its my opinion though.

^^^ I agree. I don't think this is a good direction. Moving while firing is an important method of suppressive fire, and the total deletion of CQB doesn't seem like a good gameplay idea. I also agree that it will make people afraid to move anywhere, as if they see someone who isn't moving, then they are dead, hands-down. Sounds like assaulting the objectives would become extremely difficult as everyone would be sitting around camping on roofs, etc.

I'm against it. It is a solution for the prone spamming problem, but i would not sacrifice any CQB for it.

This will only eliminate prone spamming from a a moving player, you can still prone spam. And TBH, if players can't shoot while moving they're going to prone spam even more.

Disagree with this one for all the reasons listed above.

How would this affect grenades?

"Prone spam" really isn't that big a deal. People like to give things catchy names like "prone spam" and "peekabo shooting" but its not so big a deal that CQB needs to be eliminated altogether. That's just silly.

BTW, never said I agreed with it. I feel it's full of failure. But it's worth testing the idea.

Try it for yourself before jumping on the failure bandwagon. Here is the code:

ObjectTemplate.deviation.minDev 0.0045
ObjectTemplate.deviation.setFireDev 0.2 0.05 0.005
ObjectTemplate.deviation.setTurnDev 0.02 0.01 0.01 0.005
ObjectTemplate.deviation.setSpeedDev 2.2 0.5 0.5 0.05
ObjectTemplate.deviation.setMiscDev 2 2 0.05
ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModStand 30.0
ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModCrouch 24.0
ObjectTemplate.deviation.devModLie 20.0


Instructions:

1. Go to your BF2/pr/mods/objects folder
2. Make a copy of the objects folder (as a backup. You MUST do this or you will not be able to go back to pr.75 after making the above chances)
3. Inside the objects folder, there is a objects_server_patch.zip file. Open it.
4. Inside the zip, go to: weapons/handheld/usrif_m16a4
5. Inside the usrif_m16a4 folder, open the usrif_m16a4.tweak file (use notepad to open)
6. inside the tweak, you'll see the above code. Just replace it, and save.
7. After saving, you will be prompted to update the .zip archive. Click yes. (if it doesn't archive correctly, make sure you have winrar or winzip installed on your system. You may also need to open the .zip through these programs rather than just by clicking on them)
8. Load up PR and test the m16 scoped rifle with the new code.

Note that you'll have to completely stop BF2 and restart after each code change. Also note this is just experimental, not an actual proposal to insert this code into the game... it's only a proof of concept. Try it out and report back.

Edit:
self-suppression is an issue in the current build; firing while moving causes you to suppress yourself, but just ignore that because in future releases, suppression will not kick in for at least 20 meters from the source.

needz moar pollz, but other then that good idea. I (as a tester) would like to try it out and see how it plays.

(need to reduce max deviation from 180deg to about 65deg)
(need to decrease burst fire deviation)
(need to increase accuracy time slightly)

Going to make these changes and test some more to increase CQB fighting.

In the meantime, just remember that the above code is extreme to prove the point that it can be done. So when you fire and hit your toes and the sky, don't post back in here and say it's screwed. It's experimental.

just discovered there are separate values for x and y axis, meaning you can make moving forward while scoped accurate, but make strafing inaccurate.

..testing further..

Would it be possible to have delay on firing when entering the prone position, like when you warm up the mounted machinguns?