Project Reality Forums

Did a brief search, but found nothing...

Well the topic says it all, Would really help out if a tank has something in his area that he needs help with. The driver only should be able to lase that taget for the air support.


Thoughts.

they can already spot other vehicules on the minimap , that not laser but its pretty da** good !

Maybe i would like to see a place on the tank where the offier could wear is SOFLAM and spot around and laser stuff. but i think its already suggested.

cant tanks already do that??...when im driver i think i left click then right click...then i hear this like laser noise

Thats just noise. Nothing else.

Drakenberg wrote:Did a brief search, but found nothing...

Well the topic says it all, Would really help out if a tank has something in his area that he needs help with. The driver only should be able to lase that taget for the air support.


Thoughts.

Tanks and APCs are generally not equipped with a laser target designator unless they are designed as a fire-support team (FIST) or combined observation and lasing team (COLT) vehicle, like the M7 Bradley FIST or Knight system equipped vehicles. Some ground vehicles, like Strykers equipped with the latest RWS, are equipped with infrared illuminators to point out targets to friendly forces, but these are not things that laser-guided weapon seekers and aircraft laser spot trackers pick-up on.

If your in a tank why would you laser mark that other tank/APC/whatever instead of simply shooting it?

Waaah_Wah wrote:If your in a tank why would you laser mark that other tank/APC/whatever instead of simply shooting it?

You are in a tank and see two enemy tanks in front of you that didn't notice you. You can either shoot at one, get detected by the second one and then get killed or you can call an airstrike to take care of the first one while you engage the second one !

Raniak wrote:You are in a tank and see two enemy tanks in front of you that didn't notice you. You can either shoot at one, get detected by the second one and then get killed or you can call an airstrike to take care of the first one while you engage the second one !

Or you could fire, pull back, reload, fire again, repair if you got hit, flank and kill them both

Howitzer wrote:they can already spot other vehicules on the minimap , that not laser but its pretty da** good!.

No it isn't. Airsupport can't see that tank spot from more than a couple of squares away. All I get is "enemy tank spotted" over and over again with very little if any idea of where it is.

You see he flashing icon on the map, and you see where your teammate is looking, so you do have a pretty good idea

Waaah_Wah wrote:You see he flashing icon on the map, and you see where your teammate is looking, so you do have a pretty good idea

You still need to be close enough to the spotted target for the icon to pop up on your minimap.

As Eddie mentioned, normal armor and APC units do not have TLDs equipped to perform the function that has been requested. If it is that important that the spotted target be painted, then use teamwork. All that needs to be done is the MBT crew radio for a team leader or spotter in their area to mark the target instead, acting like a "middle man". We have seperate spotter units in the military for a purpose, and several units are available in game with TLDs.

And if anyone is thinking of suggesting that FIST or similar units be added to the game, forget about it. The scale of the battles in PR are too small and lacking the necessary fire support to properly integrate such units.

Yeah, but you know aproximately where it is from long distance so you know where to fly

I must say that it would certainly be "intresting" at best to have armor targets having the capability to lase targets. The way armor "lases" targets is not the exactly the same manner I belive most people are interpreting as it's utilized to identify target range more than anything else. Although I am not completely ruling out the possibility that this can occur, as CAS (Close Air Support) is still a modern day aspect of combat and last time I checked, I wasn't the commanding officer in a 60 ton vehicle.

However, realistically speaking to the best of my knowledge the American M1A1 Abrams and M1A2 Abrams seems most likely to possess this equipment on board to perform the task. The British FV4034 Challenger 2 may also have this equipment aswell but my knowledge is limited on this particular tank.

The M1A1 and M1A2 Abrams fires the following:
1. 120mm M829A2 APFSDS-T with Tracer
<Note: DU munition or otherwise known as Depleted Urainium. Includes visual tracer. The newer M829A3 is soon to be it's successor.>
2. 120mm KEW-A1 APFSDS-T and 120mm KEW-A2 APFSDS-T with Tracer
<Note: Safe alternative to the DU munition or otherwise known as Depleted Urainium as it is made from Tungsten Steel.>
3. 120mm M1028 Canister without Tracer
<Note: Shotgun type munition capable of engaging infantry targets, light vehicles and vegitation with then intent on minimizing collateral damage.>
4. 120mm M908 HE-OR-T High Explosive Obstacle Reduction with Tracer
<Note: A time delayed high explosive round with the intent on the destruction and removal of obstacles such as concrete fortifications, dragon's teeth, etc.>
5. 120mm M830 HEAT-MP-T with Tracer (Replaced by M830A1 stated below.)
<Note: Standard shaped-charge style shell capable of engaging infantry, light vehicles and bunkers.>
6. 120mm M830A1 HEAT-MP-T with Tracer (Known as MPAT [Multi-Purpose/Anti-Tank])
<Note: An advancement of the HEAT shell, the MPAT is focused on destroying armored targets with the intent of causing additional collateral damage aswell, such as engaging enemy APC's and nearby infantry. This munition also has a very unique feature of utilizing a radar proximity sensor which is capable of delivering an air-burst projectile for defeating low flying helicopters.>
7. 120mm M943 STAFF with Tracer
<Note: A highly advanced anti-tank capable munition. Operates on the basis of indirect fire where the operator simply fires the projectile over it's intended target if attacking via direct fire is not capable (Enemy tank is behind cover, bunker, emplacement, etc.). It utilizes a small internal radar which tracks and detonates over it's intended target. Upon detonation it fires a smaller projectile into the top of it's target. This munition also has a very unique feature of being capable of defeating low flying helicopters similar to the MPAT.>

With all technical information stated, items both 6 and 7 are truely the only ones that utilize a type of "laser designation" as those rounds require a target distance to be indicated and evaluated before firing the munition itself. Which is not exactly utilized to call in CAS (Close Air Support) as you can see from the wide variety of weapons, an Abrams theoretically could hold it's own.

As for the FV4043 Challenger 2, I do acknowledge it to be a very modern and capable tank in todays modern arsenal. I belive the concept of the rifled barrel limits thier munitions between 2 ammo types only, those being the Armor Piercing (Sabot) round and the HEAT (High Explosive) round. Although the rifled barrel increases it's effectiveness with those particular munitions, but in return causes a deminishing effect on it's own selection of ammo types.

But as you can see, it simply comes down to personal opinion and preferance of what suits you best as the job still gets done all the same. Also if there is anyone who can elaborate on the variety of munitions the FV4043 Challenger 2 can fire, please share your knowledge. I am even curious of it's potential as little is known about it.

But anyways I'll most certainly take my hat off for a Challenger 2. From what I've heard there hasn't been a loss of a single Challenger 2 since the beginning of Iraq conflict. I just wish that the U.S. Abrams crews would respect their vehicles more... All too often do I see a picture or video of one stuck in the mud somewhere. Very embarassing and unprofessional, let alone some other situations that I would rather not mention.

(By the way, yes I'm American and not biasing my opinions simply because the Abrams is U.S. made equipment. It's far better to realize true potential, rather than build it up with falsehoods and be met face to face with total disappointment.)

But back on topic...

Project Reality also has a modified view on aircraft, as it's currently imperative to have a Forward Observer (Spec Ops, Officer) designating targets. Whereas truely IRL, aircraft can deliver thier own payloads without ground assistance. The true utilization of Forward Observers and spotters are utilized to help destinguish the area of attack, as from the sky it becomes rather difficult to determine at times and the last thing you want to do is start pelting friendly forces... That is a big... Big... Big... No, no.

So the question is, is it worth it? When was the last time as you acting as an officer and properly lasing targets were you able to call in CAS (Close Air Support) and have a jet come in and nutralize a target? It's not impossible, but it's a **** shoot. Betweeen identifying the target, hoping it remains still, having the commander accept the request, by the time the plane begins it's approach, is the aircraft in danger upon it's approach? Way too many variables.

Besides, as a seasoned player and acting as both Pilot and Forward Observer I can firmly say that having anyone else other than those in the squad communicating is simply a risk more than anything else. Last thing we need is more potential sources of people "lasing" targets outside of the pilot squad. Why's this? Well let's look at it closer...

A. Spec Ops is lazing an Anti-Aicraft vehicle.
B. Officer A is lazing an APC.
C. Officer B has improperly lazed the same APC as Officer A and is off by 100 meters.
C. A friendly tank is lazing another enemy tank.

So there is a total of 4 lazing's in 1 area and only 3 are actually on target. And so the CAS swoops on in, drops the bomb. Where does it land? Who the heck knows. Chances are it'll completely miss and most likely get shot down by the AA in the area... Good game.

Waaah_Wah wrote:You see he flashing icon on the map, and you see where your teammate is looking, so you do have a pretty good idea

I know full well about that, but if you fly often you will know that looking at your map every 5 minutes just to know the "general" direction of this vehicle is not a good idea. Especially if it is an AAV. Knowing exactly where things are is important taking into acount the direction of attack and evasionm procedure.

^^ so true people do that all the time to me: "we have got company overhead over." well where? FFS its a bloody hge map, also when im doing CAS all you get is "lasing target" place the CAS marker dammit!!

use chat to type where stuff is and make the spotted thing better and more lazing stuff, espically as IRL apaches, A-10 can lock on on their own.

Waaah_Wah wrote:Or you could fire, pull back, reload, fire again, repair if you got hit, flank and kill them both

just what i wanted to say.. but then i saw your post LOL.
anyway this is a tactic that works!

Ive also suggested to make separate spotting lines, like enemy attack chopper spotted or enemy fighter jet spotted. Instead of "we got company overhead over" where you have no idea what kind it is, and need to ask that in the chat.

But that suggestion brings me to another idea:

- You may or may not have seen the movie " Black hawk down " ( if you didn't, watch it ! ), anyway, at one moment the soldier throws like a grenade thing on the roof to signal the ennemy's position to the little birds, and having something like that would be nice to have in PR, or like a gun that shoots a laser pointer that chopper pilot's and jet pilot's can see.

I dunno if you really understand my idea ^^
Let's say that US is fighting against PLA on Qwai River, and the Combat Little Bird with the guns is just above them but can't tell who is who.
One US guy just shoots the laser with the gun or throws the " laser-grenade " to the PLA guys, the pilot see's it and then can take some action.

I have absolutely no idea if a feature like that is possible to create, but it would be nice , as a flaregun would be !