Project Reality Forums

just thinking...
is it warcrime to shoot a medic?




http://www.genevaconventions.org/


medical units

Fixed establishments and mobile medical units must be protected and respected by all sides in a conflict. (Convention I, Art. 19)

Medical units may have personnel who carry arms for self-defense or for the maintenance of order; may be protected by a picket, by sentries, or by an escort; may temporarily store small arms and ammunition taken from patients; may be associated with a veterinary unit; and may treat civilians. (Convention I, Art. 22)

Medical units may not be used to commit acts harmful to the enemy. If they do, they lose their protections under the Geneva Conventions after due warning has been given and a reasonable time limit has passed.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Medic

Isn't there a difference between combat medic and 'normal' medic?

i dont know, but on EJOD last night i shot a medic and felt real bad about it.

what does this have to do with the PR general discussion? haha

Yeah. The medic class in PR are combat soliders with slightly better training in first aid/trauma management rather than medical staff, I believe.

Medical personnel will wear a red cross on a while background emblem on their armlets. Alternative symbols include the red crescent and the red lion and sun. ( Convention I, Art. 39 )

Methinks the combat medics in-game cannot be identified as "medical personnel" and thus should not be treated as such.

I personally think that the combat medic class should be replaced with a class representing a soldier who is either, trained to a higher level of battlefield medicine than the average infantryman or has the task of carrying the squad's first aid gear. The class would be just like the ammo bearing rifleman class except with extra field dressings or a first aid bag instead of an ammo bag.

The combat medic would become a requestable kit and would have the armband and the inventory of the current medic. He alone would have the ability to revive fallen comrades. According to wikipedia, this class would be like the 68W MOS in the US Army. It would be nice if a similar system to the civilian killing punishment could be implemented under certain conditions (ie when not conducting offensive actions).

Not when they are carrying a rifle.

and how you want to handle this ingame?

Think about this, you shot down a guy, the medic fits him, and he start shoting again @ you, then you engage again, kill him, but dont shot the medic? Think how long you want to kill the same person

Its a game, so every enemy must be shot... thats all, so the class he has dosent matter for me.

And in the game i ever try to shot the medics first...

[R-MOD]Masaq wrote:Yeah. The medic class in PR are combat soliders with slightly better training in first aid/trauma management rather than medical staff, I believe.

I think this is correct, I always wished that soldiers that were bleeding out could be 'stabilised' by medics ingame and then sent back to the main/field hospital for full healin'.

I think alot of these conventions have been ignored since WW2, plenty of medics have bought it despite having not carried a weapon and some nations took advantage of the rules; e.g. placing ammo caches next to field hospitals.

off topic Question- are modern day medics equipped with the AED now? (automated external defibulator, I just did some AED training with St John Ambulance, the thing is hilarious)

maarit wrote:just thinking...
is it warcrime to shoot a medic?
...

Only if they're wearing some green Nikes

Combat medics won't be carrying AEDs in the way that BF2 shows them using it, simply because (as your shiny SJA training will have told you) an AED won't solve the underlying problem causing heart failure. In most battlefield scenarios that cause will be low blood pressure/systemic shock as a result of traumatic wound.

As far as I know, frontline treatment basically consists of patching up the wound, administering pain relief (morphine, I'd imagine) and I'd also suspect they'd administer epipherine (adrenaline) to try and keep things going too.

I'd suspect (again, one of our military advisors can probably clarify this) that there is access to an AED or even just a manual defib within most units, but not carried into combat as vital equipment.


(I'm a 4-year member of SJA, advanced first aid (medical gases and AED training) through them and the equivilant to Intermediate Life Support through work.)

Viper5 wrote:Not when they are carrying a rifle.

According to the Geneva Convention they are allowed to it seems. I refer you to the relevant articles.

Art. 22. The following conditions shall not be considered as depriving a medical unit or establishment of the protection guaranteed by Article 19: (1) That the personnel of the unit or establishment are armed, and that they use the arms in their own defence, or in that of the wounded and sick in their charge.

Art. 19. Fixed establishments and mobile medical units of the Medical Service may in no circumstances be attacked, but shall at all times be respected and protected by the Parties to the conflict. Should they fall into the hands of the adverse Party, their personnel shall be free to pursue their duties, as long as the capturing Power has not itself ensured the necessary care of the wounded and sick found in such establishments and units.

The responsible authorities shall ensure that the said medical establishments and units are, as far as possible, situated in such a manner that attacks against military objectives cannot imperil their safety.

[R-MOD]Masaq wrote:
(I'm a 4-year member of SJA, advanced first aid (medical gases and AED training) through them and the equivilant to Intermediate Life Support through work.)

Wouldn't you love to hear "press button to deliver shock" in BF2 though

"Stand clear of the casualty" "Press button to deliver shock" "Shocking" "Recommence CPR" lol... then you have to switch to secondary fire to deliver 30:2 chest compressions/rescue breaths?

[R-MOD]Masaq wrote:"Stand clear of the casualty" "Press button to deliver shock" "Shocking" "Recommence CPR" lol... then you have to switch to secondary fire to deliver 30:2 chest compressions/rescue breaths?

Hell yeah

It'd be funny as hell We just need a modeller and animator now.... lol

hm... why would they say "Press button to deliver shock" ?


I could understand everything else, but not that part

a medic is only a medic in this sence if he does not carry a rifle and only then he is also allowed to have a red cross on his helmet

AirCasper wrote:hm... why would they say "Press button to deliver shock" ?


I could understand everything else, but not that part

They wouldn't; an automatic external defib actually speaks to you.

You turn it on, and this disembodied voice speaks to you telling you what to do.

It tells you to apply the pads to the patient's chest, then to stand clear while it analyses the heart rhythym of the patient.

Then it either tells you to start with CPR, or allow you to administer a shock. The AED operator then tells everybody to stand clear (as well as the AED telling them to) and then it says "press button to deliver shock". You press the button, it says "Shocking" and delivers a charge.

Then it re-analyses the heart rhythym, and will either have suceeded in regaining a normal heartbeat or the atrial fibrilation will have resisted the shock, in which case it tells the operator to re-begin chest compressions and rescue breaths for two cycles (usually) and then it'll start over - request you stop CPR while it reanalyses and decides whether or not to shock again.