Project Reality Forums

this thing has been bothering me for a while: the current use of APCs ingame.

just so you can get an image , 90% of the time a squad is moving to attack , it use a comander truck or a car (vodnik,hummve,nanjim) and almos never an APC.

most of you may know that APC are mostly used for transporting (as their name explain)and their crew are jsut normal soldier trained to drive the thing , but ingame they are used mostly for suport (actually is not support ,it just move around,shot, kill , attack flags , die ,repeat).

si i come with this idea , what about if we make the APC "driveable" by Squad Leaders with an officer kit??

in that way , squads will use apcs as a transport and support tool instead of a simple "killing machine" . there will be a really combined assault , infantry suporting the apc and viceversa ,etc .

of course im only talking about APC (brt,chinese thing ,lav ,warrior?,stryker??) , not IFV , when (if) they are implemented (bradley, bmp3)


troughs ?

I actually love your idea, instead of being a weapons platform and not moving infantry around, a SL can transport his squad into battle. Although if the SL gets killed then the APC just sits there. BTW, do you mean "drivable" as in the APC would require a crewman kit equipped player to use the weapons on the APC. If so then that would be very interesting.

I usually use the APC for fire support and I get the rest of my squad in it so we have some safe transport and dont have to worry about the odd sniper who sees us moving and takes pot shotz at us

I think no warning one shot kills from HAT are more to blame for what you have described. Have it so HAT only sets the APC on fire and you'll see ppl using them more again....

Dont think its a good idea to have SL drive APC

I'd say no, if the infantry dismount it means the apc can't quickly respond to threats.

Its a problem with squad size imho.

i always get the apc as close to the squad move marker as possible to get them in and then i move back to a safe distance supporting them. The reason why ppl dont drive DIRECTLY to where the action is becuase two RPGs will kill the apc and the whole squad within it. No sensible APC driver goes into the heat of battle just to drop off soldiers, its instant death. Rmbr there are also motolovs that just destroy anything, like armour, under 3 seconds.

The troops in APC's are mechanized infantry...I'm pretty sure "THEY" don't know how to operate the vehicles,just how to properly work in unison with the crew/vehicles.I'm pretty sure the crewmen are the only ones that know how to operate the thing,but everyone that rides in it,takes training courses on emergency exiting the vehicles,and etc...

This is just a player problem,not anything gameplay,or etc...

ralfidude wrote: No sensible APC driver goes into the heat of battle just to drop off soldiers, its instant death. Rmbr there are also motolovs that just destroy anything, like armour, under 3 seconds.

thats true, but the molotovs are being worked on by the devs AFAIK, (find a post by atlantafalcons)

I've probably mentioned this book b4 on these forums 'barefoot soldier' by Johnson Beharry VC, he was a Warrior IFV driver in Iraq, and got Britain's highest medal of honour, the Victoria Cross.

Anyways, in this book he describes several times being in the **** with RPGs all over the place, and at least once his unit was sent in to the middle of intense firefights to withdraw men who were under attack at a local command post. I don't think they would have been able to do this if APCs were as frail as they are ingame atm.

EDIT- @agentscar as far as the British army is concerned, I think your right ^ according to the above book anyways. Dismounts are all hopefuls for the driver's course, but they arent formally trained until there is a space.

Mescaldrav wrote:I think no warning one shot kills from HAT are more to blame for what you have described. Have it so HAT only sets the APC on fire and you'll see ppl using them more again....

Dont think its a good idea to have SL drive APC

Yeah, and the APCs are going to be a priority target and lack the speed of a normal landrover or whatever. Perhaps no insta-explode unless hit in the rear by a HAT. The inf are still going to be in trouble bailing from the wreck.

Although i don't see the problem with an officer driving. Officers do crew these things i'd assume and often SLs like to drive so they get exactly where they want to go. Its a trade off with the officer being safer, but less able to get as much of a feel for the battle as someone with boots on the gound.

A true mech inf squad would be something I'd like to see alot more of in PR, APCs pulling up, letting its troops out and supporting the attack. Fast, mobile and flexible. Anything which makes this easier is good in my book.

Well,I was speaking for APC crews and soldiers and etc. in general for most militaries.

I was mainly going off of the U.S. Military's operations with the Stryker...

I wasn't trying to say infantry officers crewed them, sorry, that bit wasn't clear.

I though the WZ551, BTR-90, Warrior, LAV-25 was all IFV?

BTR stands for armored personal carrier in russian . the WZ551 is primaly a APC , but it comes in a IFV configuration , with less pasanger seats and the lav is considered a APC too.

the warrior is a IFV however , and its the best armored of the ones you mentioned .

It would be great for gameplay, but I can't think of a single instance in modern combat where infantry fireteam/squad leaders operated any vehicle larger than an IFV, such as a HMMWV, Land Rover, BF2 "Vodnik", or Nanjing.

In general, aside from the IFVs, infantry officers never drive. Allowing the squad members of an infantry squad to drive APCs is a stretch, but it's the only compromise we can use in a video game like this.

The M2 Bradley IFV is the ultimate IFV!!! lol

(wanna start a Warrior vs. Bradley debate? lol,jk,they both sexy beasts!)

i can see it now...abandoned APCs all over the map, and angry crewmen like myself screaming for reasons.

APCs usually drive of with the first thing on their mind. Go to flag area and /or flank enemy APC.

Squads dont load up in the APC dispite there being enough seets to fit a squad inside.

I imagine the only way to make APCs more effective would to be boost the amount of score an APC gets for transporting troops.

Good idea, with major flaws. What if the officer has to get out? Apc is left behind. Many more...good intentions with the with the suggestion.

Psykogundam wrote:i can see it now...abandoned APCs all over the map, and angry crewmen like myself screaming for reasons.

i cant see how , a SL gets in a APC , the sqaud gets too, they drive to a zone , the SL bailts to set a rally , then they continue the advanse until they are "reasonable close" to the target , the squads bailt and star moving/shoting/ killing/dying while the SL in the apc and his gunner protec them and viceversa , until the APC get killed and the SL spawns at the rally and the assault continues , just withut the APC , witch was and asset that they lose .

there , mechanized infantery at the best . of course if just a basic idea that can be polished , like making only squads of 6 able to use APC , or something else .

agentscar wrote:The troops in APC's are mechanized infantry...I'm pretty sure "THEY" don't know how to operate the vehicles,just how to properly work in unison with the crew/vehicles.I'm pretty sure the crewmen are the only ones that know how to operate the thing,but everyone that rides in it,takes training courses on emergency exiting the vehicles,and etc...

This is just a player problem,not anything gameplay,or etc...

The crewmen who operate the Bradley, Stryker and other US APCs are infantrymen/infantry officers or other combat arms MOS (combat engineer, cavalry scout, etc.) with qualification training on the vehicle. Every soldier assigned to one of these platoons will undergo formal or on-the-job training to drive and perform low-level maintenance on the vehicle.

But yes, it is a player problem.

APCs have 8 slots.

2 crewman (a 2 man squad)

6 passangers (a full squad)

The main reason why APCs aint used for transport as much as they should is cos its very hard to communicate with the APC's crew about pickups etc apart from with any luck though a commander or text.

I often play on a TS, in fact last night we had a APC squad and a infantry squad and with TS to be able to talk with the APCs its quite easy to coordinate pickups, drop offs etc.

The flaw is really just with the BF2 VOIP system, thou saying that, the BF2 VOIP system is one of the things that have made PR and you cant find it as well set out etc in many other games so you cant really bash it