Project Reality Forums

While I certainly don't complain about it ingame, being quite a fan of the SAW, I do have to say something about the unrealistic accuracy of it. This thing is pretty much the ultimate infantry weapon the way it is, and I'm sure the SAW isn't that accurate IRL. If you so much as crouch, you can get pretty damn good accuracy firing non-stop. I don't mind the near-perfect prone accuracy(due to the bipod), but there needs to be more recoil when standing/crouching.

The M249 is what I'm assuming you're talking about. It's a heavy weapon firing a light round; there isn't going to be much recoil. Gun-sway would be an issue crouched or standing, though, as it is quite hefty.

i think it might be fine as is...but i think the HK21E which fires a bigger round (i think) shold have a little more recoil....like the PKM...but yea from prone the weapons are a bit like auto sniper rifles...idk if thats how their suposed to be in RL tho

Conman51=US= wrote:i think it might be fine as is...but i think the HK21E which fires a bigger round (i think) shold have a little more recoil....like the PKM...but yea from prone the weapons are a bit like auto sniper rifles...idk if thats how their suposed to be in RL tho

The HK21E is the 7.62 x 51 varient and the HK23E is the 5.56 x 45 varient. Both are identified as the HK21E has a longer and havier barrel, whereas the HK23E has a shorter and thinner barrel. This can be noticed by looking at the muzzle-end of the gun and noticing how the barrel extends past the front handgrip.

HK21E (7.62 x 51)


HK23E (5.56 x 45)


Also, take note of the select fire option which currently does not exist in game. Both the HK21E and the HK23E offer a semi-automatic, 3 round burst and a fully automatic feature. Unless there is a different version for the military that I'm unaware of, this is the way HK light machine guns are.

Seeing as we're on the topic of LMG's. I might as well add that my U.S. Marine buddy had informed me that the M249 is a good weapon. However it becomes increasingly vulnerable to jamming or misfeeding when firing in long bursts longer than 18 rounds. By the way it fires in the fully automatic mode only, which is odd in my opinion.

Anyways, I must agree with you about LMG's and excessive accuracy when firing in long bursts. However a majority of LMG's to this day are highly stable when firing fully automatic, but I wish there was a way to encourage players to fire in 3 round bursts. Afterall, burst fire is the method that armies teach soldiers to maintain accuracy, control and prevent rapid overheating.

Also, take note of the select fire option which currently does not exist in game.

Erm, the in-game HK21 has semi, burst and auto mode.

Outlawz wrote:Erm, the in-game HK21 has semi, burst and auto mode.

Noted, but the last time I picked up a HK21E was awhile ago. Didn't feel that long though. Seems like I'm to blame for acting as the officer and squad leading so much that I've overlooked this minor detail. Besides when I'm not squad leading I'm usually a Medic, while everyone else sops up all the limited kits they don't need.

Then again, I usually don't use weapons that are rifleman bait. Besides the fact that the Automatic Rifleman lost the ammo bag, it has become more useless than before. I don't bother with having them in my squad. (Shrug)

Personally I think they should just slap a scope on LMG's and tweak it's deviation while firing fully automatic past a 3 round burst.

^^Useless?? LMG's are great Effective as hell when used correctly

Waaah_Wah wrote:^^Useless?? LMG's are great Effective as hell when used correctly

Oh well, I suppose some people can use them well. I've never considered them really a threat, usually it's "Boom headshot... Next!" for me.

The LMG is intended as a stationary light infantry suppression weapon. Unfortunately, it doesn't behave this way and acts more like a full-auto sniper and mobile terminator-style minigun, annihilating everything in its path.

The deviations for all weapons are being dramatically re-done for PRv8. In particular, specialty weapons such as the LMG, LAT, HAT, and sniper are going to require a moderate to heavy set-up time from the prone/crouch position before the weapon can be fired accurately. Once set up, these weapons will be extremely effective but moving around will have penalties.

Some people can argue the practicality of moving/shooting with these weapons but the bottom line is that BF2 lacks the biomechanical coding to make it realistically happen and quite frankly, I think most people are tired of the solo run'n/gun shooting range. In PRv8, each weapon is being designed to operate within its niche role, not operate within all roles. The end result is a paper/scissor/rock strategy that infantry combat desperately needs.

The german light machine gun MG4 made by HK is an effin sniper rifle and I mean that literally, u can put a scope on it and snipe, or set it on full auto. Now the Para isnt uber leet spec ops gear like the stuff HK does, but I think it would still be pretty accurate prone. The moments where bullet drop would come into play are rare. Its a powerfull weapon and thats why you only get to have one per squad.

By the way what is the difference between the HK MG3 and the HK 21 is it the same beast by a different name ? They are both HK machine guns fiering 7.62 rounds.

A rifle with a long and heavy barrel....hmmm. That's because LMGs ARE full-auto sniper rifles.

[R-CON]Wolfe wrote:The LMG is intended as a stationary light infantry suppression weapon. Unfortunately, it doesn't behave this way and acts more like a full-auto sniper and mobile terminator-style minigun, annihilating everything in its path.

The deviations for all weapons are being dramatically re-done for PRv8. In particular, specialty weapons such as the LMG, LAT, HAT, and sniper are going to require a moderate to heavy set-up time from the prone/crouch position before the weapon can be fired accurately. Once set up, these weapons will be extremely effective but moving around will have penalties.

Some people can argue the practicality of moving/shooting with these weapons but the bottom line is that BF2 lacks the biomechanical coding to make it realistically happen and quite frankly, I think most people are tired of the solo run'n/gun shooting range. In PRv8, each weapon is being designed to operate within its niche role, not operate within all roles. The end result is a paper/scissor/rock strategy that infantry combat desperately needs.

The sniper rifle should be dead on accurate even if you move the scope around.

Good to hear that the deviation is being redone, just dont skrew it up guys

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Katarn;737617']A rifle with a long and heavy barrel....hmmm. That's because LMGs ARE full-auto sniper rifles.[/quote]

Hm...

[quote="Sgt.North""]They tend to fire from an open bolt position, thus less accurate, but more capable of dissipating the large amount of heat generated.
From the Open bolt position, the round is not 'tight' inside the barrel and as such is not that accurate.
They rely on the deviation, and suppression effect at all but Close range.[/quote]

[R-MOD]Bob_Marley wrote:Typically LMGs are designed to be inherently inaccurate, if they're too accurate they dont give an area of "beaten ground" and end up being less effective in their role of delivering suppressive fire. See Bren Gun & L86.

Bren gun was what.. 60 years ago?

The accuracy might be enough on modern LGMs to give the ability to be somewhat innacurate, but when you've got that thing setup, you're going to be putting bullets on target. They're supposed to be infantry killers, and i think the way PR has it accurately reflects that.

I'm worried these new deviation changes might too extreme.

Please don't turn the LMGs into the .75 sniper rifles, they are a weapon of war designed to kill things, not just kick up dust.

Tirak wrote:Please don't turn the LMGs into the .75 sniper rifles, they are a weapon of war designed to kill things, not just kick up dust.

The LMG will be limited to firing a massive amount of firepower down range in a limited arc. It will have a tighter cone of fire than a riflemen, but only when prone, not moving, and after a moderate set-up time. And by the way, moving is different than turning, which will still be allowed (90 degree arc) after which you dramatically lose accuracy if quickly turning 180.

Don't worry, you'll love it.

[R-CON]Wolfe wrote:The LMG will be limited to firing a massive amount of firepower down range in a limited arc. It will have a tighter cone of fire than a riflemen, but only when prone, not moving, and after a moderate set-up time. And by the way, moving is different than turning, which will still be allowed (90 degree arc) after which you dramatically lose accuracy if quickly turning 180.

Don't worry, you'll love it.

So you are turning it into the .75 sniper rifles Where they can only be used prone and the setup time is far too long for a tactical situation. LMGs aren't just defensive weapons, if you're attaking, you need some heavy firepower, and you need that firepower mobile, if I've got to go prone, which reduces what I can see therefore reducing how well I can cover my squad, wait five to twenty seconds before my weapon is of any use, I might as well be useless.

[R-CON]Wolfe wrote:The LMG will be limited to firing a massive amount of firepower down range in a limited arc. It will have a tighter cone of fire than a riflemen, but only when prone, not moving, and after a moderate set-up time. And by the way, moving is different than turning, which will still be allowed (90 degree arc) after which you dramatically lose accuracy if quickly turning 180.

Don't worry, you'll love it.

Heh.. That will suck pretty badly for squads who like to be a bit offencive.

But after reading that tread in the Community Modding section im pretty interested It sounds good, have you guys started testing it yet, or is it still under developement?

Can it be done so that if you are pressed against a wall say, crouching or standing, although you dont 'put' the bipod on the wall, the deviation is slightly less so it appears like the bipod is on the wall.

Tirak wrote:So you are turning it into the .75 sniper rifles Where they can only be used prone and the setup time is far too long for a tactical situation. LMGs aren't just defensive weapons, if you're attaking, you need some heavy firepower, and you need that firepower mobile, if I've got to go prone, which reduces what I can see therefore reducing how well I can cover my squad, wait five to twenty seconds before my weapon is of any use, I might as well be useless.

I don't think that he is saying they can ONLY be used prone.

Just that while prone (and after a setup time) they'll be much more accurate, while stand/crouch will be a bit larger spray area.


Just find a good place to set prone from a bit afar, cover your squaddies from a distance, then move in while they cover you, etc?