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Just a thread with suggestions from anyone and everyone who thinks that Basrah could use some changes. For those who don't know, many networkable objects are being removed in v0.8 to prevent the crashes after a round on Basrah ends.

1. Remove the Merlin - The Merlin on Al Basrah wastes more tickets than the number of troops it actually transports, on a usual basis. Instead, focus Al Basrah on land vehicles and infantry squads; it will allow the insurgents the opportunity to set up regular ambushes and stop worrying about the Merlin flying very obviously overhead and trying to drop troops on the opposite side of you, only to be wiped out by a few insurgents collaborating on a rooftop.
   
2. Change Insurgent Rallies - Far too often there are 3 map-placed rallies extremely close to eachother; is there a way to set a distance requirement of the rallies, or creating a few preset patterns that would rotate?
   
3. Moving Vehicle Wrecks - Some of the static wrecks (such as the blue and orange cars near the North enterance of the city along the main road could use some replacing to allow for some tactical placement of IEDs. Some of them could be placed near the road, or in the road, to add some variety to the roads of Al Basrah.
   
4. Changes to Cache System - Currently there are 3 caches active regularly. Insurgents are usually concentrated around 2 of them, if you're lucky. Instead, reducing the active caches to 2 (Or, my personal opinion, a single cache area with perhaps a second one that cannot be seen by british forces until the first one is taken out) to concentrate the fight. Intel would still work the same way; caches will not be seen by the British side until the British meet the intel requirement. Also, the amount of caches should be reduced to 5-6 caches overall to account for the amount of time the British would spend on a single cache (British may need an increase in tickets overall).
   
5. More Severe Civi Punishments - Right now the British end up screwing over their team more than they know by killing a Civi, those 10 tickets just go down the drain so quickly; Hopefully with the fix of the "Death timer decrease" glitch in v0.8, this will reduce. If not, however, the civi penalty should increase somehow. The main annoyance about civis is if they hide from a tank while it is being attacked by insurgents in the area, and heat rounds kill the civi and the team is punished. I'm recommending (if possible) that civis within a 20m, 50m, or 100m (whichever doesn't disrupt gameplay so much) of a non-civi teammate that the British team will not be penalized for killing him due to supporting insurgents.
   
6. Civi Appearance Change - I'm not saying that the civi should go back to it's old BRIGHT GREEN vest, but if he's going to have that white striped shirt then no one else on the insurgent team should. Give the civi a uniform that isn't immediately obvious, but not so that you can mistake an insurgent kit or the like (they render with weapons but without the head-piece at a distance of 100m or so, and obviously without either farther out)
   
7. Less focus on the West Village - Too many times there is a cache out in West Village, and it seems although the entire British team goes straight to the village and assaults that cache relentlessly. It usually takes them far too long to find the cache, and often causes the British to lose too much time and they end up losing the round.

Add your views on Al Basrah and changes you think it needs.

Celestial1 wrote:

1. Change Insurgent Rallies - Far too often there are 3 map-placed rallies extremely close to eachother; is there a way to set a distance requirement of the rallies, or creating a few preset patterns that would rotate?
   
2. Moving Vehicle Wrecks - Some of the static wrecks (such as the blue and orange cars near the North enterance of the city along the main road could use some replacing to allow for some tactical placement of IEDs. Some of them could be placed near the road, or in the road, to add some variety to the roads of Al Basrah.
   
3. More Severe Civi Punishments - Right now the British end up screwing over their team more than they know by killing a Civi, those 10 tickets just go down the drain so quickly; Hopefully with the fix of the "Death timer decrease" glitch in v0.8, this will reduce. If not, however, the civi penalty should increase somehow. The main annoyance about civis is if they hide from a tank while it is being attacked by insurgents in the area, and heat rounds kill the civi and the team is punished. I'm recommending (if possible) that civis within a 20m, 50m, or 100m (whichever doesn't disrupt gameplay so much) of a non-civi teammate that the British team will not be penalized for killing him due to supporting insurgents.

Add your views on Al Basrah and changes you think it needs.

I removed what i dont agree with.
The merlin is not a problem i have very rarely seen it misused in the way you described.
The cache system is fine if you get teamwork between squads which is rarely a problem thus a defence can be organised.
Civie apparance change not needed watch what you shoot. Only return fire etc.
The focus on west village this happens sometimes but provides some of the most exciting battles.

I also have some suggestions to add

Firstly civies should be able to repair bridges its not fair that brits role in with armour due to an indestructable bridge and a fording point while insugents cannot get bomb cars etc to counter them from the palace due to brits blowing all 3 bridges and since civies cant repair them chances are slim an insugent will get an engie kit then make it to the bridges to repair them.

Secondly vcp spawn should be permanent and landys should respawn great help for infantry squads.

if u make it where civis can repair bridges then the bomb cars would be to spammy...so if civis repair bridges then max bombs of 2 with the respawn time of a tank. and i also think once an insurgent rally goes down it should stay down. they have palace and mosque as permanent spawns. but only do that if brits rally only has limited amount of spawns. then firebases and bunkers become more important and the insurgents will stay in the city...perhaps to defend their rallys

spammy bomb cars?
A good armour crew would have no problem taking out a bomb car the tuck would be a problem but even a good landy gunner can take a bomb car. Remember they have little health and take alot of damage off road i often have my bomb car explode randomly while driving off road.

So you think the brits should run around with all this armour and the insurgents have few effective means to counter this considering most armour bolts back to fb/bunker/cp for repairs after one rpg hit

thedoombringer0 wrote:I removed what i dont agree with.
The merlin is not a problem i have very rarely seen it misused in the way you described.
The cache system is fine if you get teamwork between squads which is rarely a problem thus a defence can be organised.
Civie apparance change not needed watch what you shoot. Only return fire etc.
The focus on west village this happens sometimes but provides some of the most exciting battles.

I also have some suggestions to add

Firstly civies should be able to repair bridges its not fair that brits role in with armour due to an indestructable bridge and a fording point while insugents cannot get bomb cars etc to counter them from the palace due to brits blowing all 3 bridges and since civies cant repair them chances are slim an insugent will get an engie kit then make it to the bridges to repair them.

Secondly vcp spawn should be permanent and landys should respawn great help for infantry squads.

I'm sorry, but did you read half the things I wrote? Insurgents past roughly 200 meters do not render a headgarb. This includes the RPG kit (which also contains binocs) render the same as a civi. Weapons being the only difference, which does no good if they are using the knife, binocs, nade/molotov And depending on how far/obscured, the ammo bag. Everything but a rifle. Earlier today, I held fire on what looked to be a civi, until he stood up after crawling with an RPG, and shot my Challenger II seconds before my coaxil bullets reached him.

The Merlin causes a large disorganization of the British team, with the usual "I wanna fly I wanna fly" banter, as well as the mismatched squad members hopping in just so they can get a ride in their favorite little helicopter. When they do finally land, there are often Brits not even in the same squad dropped off, and with the easy to spot green piggy of a chopper flying generally so low, the British troops are easy to find if you just follow the noise of the Merly.

The cache system is very disorganized, with the British team only usually attacking a single cache with any force. Reducing the amount of caches not only visible but OVERALL will focus the battle more and give the British team a single objective to worry about.

I'm not saying REMOVE the west village caches, just tone down the frequency of them.


Now, for your points: Civis don't have the resources to rebuild a commercial bridge. End of story.
Why bother with the VCP being permanent when most troops are at the main getting a lift from the merlin, getting an Armored vehicle, or just waanking about until one of those occurs.

More light transport is a good thing, but do remember that APCs are ARMORED PERSONNEL CARRIERS, not infantry fighting vehicles. Start using them so.

[*]Remove the Merlin No thanks, its often used badly, but thats partly due to the infamous lag. Might be fixed in future release
[*]Change Insurgent Rallies[/b] - agree wholeheartedly
[*]Moving Vehicle Wrecks[/b] - sure, why not
[*]Changes to Cache System[/b] - no thanks, if anything more than 3 should be in play at a time to keep the game mobile
[*]More Severe Civi Punishments[/b] - kinda eliminates the point of the civilian...
[*]Civi Appearance Change[/b] - I havent killed a civi in months, no change needed imo, if ur SL is directing fire properly civi casualties will be minimal ingame
[*]Less focus on the West Village[/b] - why do the brits attack it? because its isolated with a high probability of a cache, with positions for APC/tank support and it also happens to be near a river crossing point, i.e. good place to attack. Village and refinery are the two places I'd attack if no intel is avaliable.

My points about basrah-
Needs more clever hidey places like on Archer for caches/ambushes

VCP is kinda pointless, make it cappable again with a SLOW bleed so that the fight can continue there (and it makes the strategy more rich and defined)

Have only one crossable fjord, either the bridges matter, or they don't, if they don't make them invincible and save the destructible objects

Something does need to be done to augment civilians, in order to make them easier to capture in a short range, (IRL i'd get down on the ground pretty sharphish if a man with a gun was shouting at me at 10meters away) I'd love something like a verbal warning that made civilians fair game within 10meters

civilians shouldn't be able to drive technicals, seems pointless that they cant pick up a gun, but they can drive a car with 2 on it.

I'd actually like the VCP to be moved nearer the bridge, the idea being that it can defend the bridge, but that sounds like a headache of a job

lolz, i could go on forever, but I still love the map

Celestial1 wrote:Just a thread with suggestions from anyone and everyone who thinks that Basrah could use some changes. For those who don't know, many networkable objects are being removed in v0.8 to prevent the crashes after a round on Basrah ends.

1. Remove the Merlin - The Merlin on Al Basrah wastes more tickets than the number of troops it actually transports, on a usual basis. Instead, focus Al Basrah on land vehicles and infantry squads; it will allow the insurgents the opportunity to set up regular ambushes and stop worrying about the Merlin flying very obviously overhead and trying to drop troops on the opposite side of you, only to be wiped out by a few insurgents collaborating on a rooftop.
   
   Well, thats that teams problem. I have seen the chopter being used effectively plenty of times. Dont dumb down the game just coz some people are morons
   
   
2. Change Insurgent Rallies - Far too often there are 3 map-placed rallies extremely close to eachother; is there a way to set a distance requirement of the rallies, or creating a few preset patterns that would rotate?
   
   Whats the problem really? I dont mind this as long as there are rallies to spawn at over the whole city
   
   
3. Moving Vehicle Wrecks - Some of the static wrecks (such as the blue and orange cars near the North enterance of the city along the main road could use some replacing to allow for some tactical placement of IEDs. Some of them could be placed near the road, or in the road, to add some variety to the roads of Al Basrah.
   
   Just place IEDs behind small rocks on the way or behind light poles. It works
   
   
4. Changes to Cache System - Currently there are 3 caches active regularly. Insurgents are usually concentrated around 2 of them, if you're lucky. Instead, reducing the active caches to 2 (Or, my personal opinion, a single cache area with perhaps a second one that cannot be seen by british forces until the first one is taken out) to concentrate the fight. Intel would still work the same way; caches will not be seen by the British side until the British meet the intel requirement. Also, the amount of caches should be reduced to 5-6 caches overall to account for the amount of time the British would spend on a single cache (British may need an increase in tickets overall).
   
   Just because the team wont guard cashes, you shouldnt reduse their number. Thats like forcing people to firs take east, then west beach on Jabal, just coz some teams have trouble defending two flags at the same time.
   
   
5. More Severe Civi Punishments - Right now the British end up screwing over their team more than they know by killing a Civi, those 10 tickets just go down the drain so quickly; Hopefully with the fix of the "Death timer decrease" glitch in v0.8, this will reduce. If not, however, the civi penalty should increase somehow. The main annoyance about civis is if they hide from a tank while it is being attacked by insurgents in the area, and heat rounds kill the civi and the team is punished. I'm recommending (if possible) that civis within a 20m, 50m, or 100m (whichever doesn't disrupt gameplay so much) of a non-civi teammate that the British team will not be penalized for killing him due to supporting insurgents.
   
   Yes on the first part, but no on the second. Watch your fire and you should be fine.
   
   
6. Civi Appearance Change - I'm not saying that the civi should go back to it's old BRIGHT GREEN vest, but if he's going to have that white striped shirt then no one else on the insurgent team should. Give the civi a uniform that isn't immediately obvious, but not so that you can mistake an insurgent kit or the like (they render with weapons but without the head-piece at a distance of 100m or so, and obviously without either farther out)
   
   
   If you see that he holds a weapon, fire. If he doesnt, dont. Its that easy. Insurgents and civilians look alike IRL, thats the main problem...
   
   
   
7. Less focus on the West Village - Too many times there is a cache out in West Village, and it seems although the entire British team goes straight to the village and assaults that cache relentlessly. It usually takes them far too long to find the cache, and often causes the British to lose too much time and they end up losing the round.

Well, thats your teams problem...
Add your views on Al Basrah and changes you think it needs.

Red.

Celestial1 wrote: More light transport is a good thing, but do remember that APCs are ARMORED PERSONNEL CARRIERS, not infantry fighting vehicles. Start using them so.

Warrior IFV. Say what?

Celestial 1 The warrior is an IFV

Most of the problems you describe come from lack of teamwork and communication not as a result of the map and the way it works.

The merlin is effective if communication and teamwork are used.

The cache system is fine yes most of the team usualy swarms one cache but irl real operations arent taken one at a time its usualy lots of raids all at the same time and thats what it encourages.

And well it is pretty easy not to kill a civie if in doubt fire a few shots near him if he stands there in line of fire its a civie trying to make you shoot him.

Finaly my idea of vcp is to stop people sitting in main but that could also be solved with co assets but commanding on basrah can be annoying and often people dont even bother.

thedoombringer0 wrote:spammy bomb cars?
A good armour crew would have no problem taking out a bomb car the tuck would be a problem but even a good landy gunner can take a bomb car. Remember they have little health and take alot of damage off road i often have my bomb car explode randomly while driving off road.

So you think the brits should run around with all this armour and the insurgents have few effective means to counter this considering most armour bolts back to fb/bunker/cp for repairs after one rpg hit

Its realistic isn't it? Have you ever heard of insurgents actually attempting to repair a bridge in battle? If the insurgents want to use their bomb cars so badly, then defend the bridges, its that simple.

maverick551 wrote:Its realistic isn't it? Have you ever heard of insurgents actually attempting to repair a bridge in battle? If the insurgents want to use their bomb cars so badly, then defend the bridges, its that simple.

then the brits should have to defend too but wait they dont have to because they have two indestructable crossings on opposite ends of the map.

The fording point in the east beside the duel carriage way bridge and the indestructable bridge at the west village.

this problem could also be solved by putting more bomb cars in the actual city.

And yes insugents would repair bridges or at least those working for them.
Irl would the military destroy trans routes for locals i doubt it. maybe put a checkpoint on the route but not destroy it.

thedoombringer0 wrote:Celestial 1 The warrior is an IFV

Granted, but in PR it acts more like an APC than an IFV, as the scimitar seems to fill that roll, while the warrior can carry more than 2 people.

thedoombringer0 wrote:Most of the problems you describe come from lack of teamwork and communication not as a result of the map and the way it works.

The merlin is effective if communication and teamwork are used.

Finaly my idea of vcp is to stop people sitting in main but that could also be solved with co assets but commanding on basrah can be annoying and often people dont even bother.

I almost always play insurgent on Al Basrah. It gets annoying when we have 3 caches out in the open, but because the British team focusing on one cache, it's almost useless to have the 3rd cache, as you're lucky if they attack any other one. 2 caches would make the least difference, and the British could still attack the other cache. It's not like I said that my personal preference should be the one put into the game. That's just what I personally think would make Basrah very intense. I can see things against it working, too.

The Merlin is used effectively sometimes; but with the general flight pattern of Merlin pilots, they seem to enjoy flying just outside the city while insurgents just keep an ear out for where the buzzin' holds still. While the Merlin can be used in good ways sometimes, it causes way too many people to run straight to the big green doors, instead of grabbing hold of a vehicle and working their way to a cache. You can like it being there all you want, but the only things interesting I've seen done with the Merlin is flying into RPGs.

Commanding on Basrah doesn't work, because all the British team is out to do is to go after the closest cache. And get in the Merlin, instead of trying to build a rally, or build a bunker, or a firebase, nothing.

thedoombringer0 wrote:The cache system is fine yes most of the team usualy swarms one cache but irl real operations arent taken one at a time its usualy lots of raids all at the same time and thats what it encourages.

Encourages? No. 2 Caches might encourage that. 3 makes the British team poop themselves because they can't choose one. What are you going to miss if you only have 2 caches on the map? I have never seen a British team divide to attack all three caches. Never. Not a damn one single British soldier breaking off from the 2 caches that the British MIGHT attack, who could be lost and not know how he's supposed to get back to his team, with no intent of even looking for the cache.

It doesn't happen that often. Not to mention that all the caches are either in West Village, the Slums, or the outskirts of the city. If you get lucky, there's one in facility. The action you get in West Village almost never sees the same intensity of a fight in the city.

thedoombringer0 wrote:And well it is pretty easy not to kill a civie if in doubt fire a few shots near him if he stands there in line of fire its a civie trying to make you shoot him.

Now THAT is really realistic, isn't it? Civis standing like they have nothing to live for. You simplify things way too much. Say I have what looks to be a civi (about 200 meters out, holding binocs) and he's laying on one of the 45 degree angle solar panels on a rooftop. What am I gonna do, blast a heat round in him? I don't want my coaxil going over his head and having him just stand up to spot me. So I wait, and observe him. He eventually moves around the rooftop, crawling, and then promptly stands up.

He has an RPG in his hands. And my vehicle is either destroyed or very close to it, even though I lay a few coaxil bullets into him. This happened yesterday. See in reality, I would be able to see he has an RPG with him. It would likely be in his hands or on his back. But you can't see that in BF2. Nope, not at all. So, while I'm trying not to rack up a civi kill, insurgents and RPG kits can stand around with binocs or a grenade, and I'll try not to shoot them because I can't tell.

I'm not saying change the civi so he's bright white and you can see him anywhere. I'm saying do something as minor as changing the angle of the stripes on his shirt so that after you observe him for a moment, you can tell whether or not he's a civi.

Celestial1 wrote:Granted, but in PR it acts more like an APC than an IFV, as the scimitar seems to fill that roll, while the warrior can carry more than 2 people.

The Scimitar is an armored recon vehicle, the Warrior is an infantry fighting vehicle, what that means is they carry troops into battle and support those troops.

I almost always play insurgent on Al Basrah. It gets annoying when we have 3 caches out in the open, but because the British team focusing on one cache, it's almost useless to have the 3rd cache, as you're lucky if they attack any other one. 2 caches would make the least difference, and the British could still attack the other cache. It's not like I said that my personal preference should be the one put into the game. That's just what I personally think would make Basrah very intense. I can see things against it working, too.

Any good Basrah Commander will put preassure on one or two caches and when he's sure the insurgents have committed themselves, he'll rush a squad around the flank and hit one of the more isolated ones, if that squad takes too long, he'll shift the attack or pull them back and wait for another opening, it's good tactical sense. Just because you're running into idiot commanders and british soldiers doesn't mean you need to put blinders on them.

The Merlin is used effectively sometimes; but with the general flight pattern of Merlin pilots, they seem to enjoy flying just outside the city while insurgents just keep an ear out for where the buzzin' holds still. While the Merlin can be used in good ways sometimes, it causes way too many people to run straight to the big green doors, instead of grabbing hold of a vehicle and working their way to a cache. You can like it being there all you want, but the only things interesting I've seen done with the Merlin is flying into RPGs.

If all you see is Merlin's being shot down, then they're in the hands of poor pilots. Good pilots are indeed hard to find, but they turn the Merlin into an invaluable asset for any commander. Merlins can get Demo squads to palace and take out the bridges to cut off the Insurgent supply of armed vehicles and bomb cars, Merlins can rush squads to other caches while the insurgents are distracted and Merlins can drop supply crates to aid in building far flung firebases, such as behind the city.

Commanding on Basrah doesn't work, because all the British team is out to do is to go after the closest cache. And get in the Merlin, instead of trying to build a rally, or build a bunker, or a firebase, nothing.

Again, you've never run into a good commander then. Good commanders can mean the difference between victory and defeat, just like on every other map, a good battle plan can give one squad enough time to sneak in and take out a lightly defended cache, a good commander organizes transport assets and stratigicly places build orders to support his squads, and your commander is the only one who, unless the team is using teamspeak, can integrate armored support to the level it needs to be at.

Encourages? No. 2 Caches might encourage that. 3 makes the British team poop themselves because they can't choose one. What are you going to miss if you only have 2 caches on the map? I have never seen a British team divide to attack all three caches. Never. Not a damn one single British soldier breaking off from the 2 caches that the British MIGHT attack, who could be lost and not know how he's supposed to get back to his team, with no intent of even looking for the cache.

Again, don't punish those of us who play the game well because some noobs can't focus, all this does is make it easier for the insurgents to defend when in reality, they'd have to split their forces and expose some of their vitals.

It doesn't happen that often. Not to mention that all the caches are either in West Village, the Slums, or the outskirts of the city. If you get lucky, there's one in facility. The action you get in West Village almost never sees the same intensity of a fight in the city.

I agree, the cache spawn system needs work.

Now THAT is really realistic, isn't it? Civis standing like they have nothing to live for. You simplify things way too much. Say I have what looks to be a civi (about 200 meters out, holding binocs) and he's laying on one of the 45 degree angle solar panels on a rooftop. What am I gonna do, blast a heat round in him? I don't want my coaxil going over his head and having him just stand up to spot me. So I wait, and observe him. He eventually moves around the rooftop, crawling, and then promptly stands up.

He has an RPG in his hands. And my vehicle is either destroyed or very close to it, even though I lay a few coaxil bullets into him. This happened yesterday. See in reality, I would be able to see he has an RPG with him. It would likely be in his hands or on his back. But you can't see that in BF2. Nope, not at all. So, while I'm trying not to rack up a civi kill, insurgents and RPG kits can stand around with binocs or a grenade, and I'll try not to shoot them because I can't tell.

I'm not saying change the civi so he's bright white and you can see him anywhere. I'm saying do something as minor as changing the angle of the stripes on his shirt so that after you observe him for a moment, you can tell whether or not he's a civi.

No, the civi should not change, if you're running into this problem, then you need to start bringing along an infantry screen. Armor is not meant to go it alone, and Insurgents can easily dispatch with an armored unit that chooses to do so. This situation is easily solved with coordination with your commander and another squad.

Tirak wrote:No, the civi should not change, if you're running into this problem, then you need to start bringing along an infantry screen. Armor is not meant to go it alone, and Insurgents can easily dispatch with an armored unit that chooses to do so. This situation is easily solved with coordination with your commander and another squad.

You seem to be missing the point of my complaint.

It doesn't matter what you're driving, or what you're not driving. The insurgent headgarbs do NOT render after a short distance. They don't. The weapons they carry do, but not the headgarb. And the weapons are not shown on their backs, so it is impossible to distinguish between an Insurgent, RPG kit, or civilian at about 200m plus, if they are not weilding an RPG or an AK-47.

Let me guess, next comment will be "watch what they are doing then", and my response is this: Sometimes, the RPG kit will use his binocs for quite some time, thinking that the armor he is tracking doesn't see him from his rooftop. He may not move, he may not switch weapons. He will often stand there and just use the binocs until he is ready to take the shot. Or an insurgent will be on a rooftop holding an ammo bag. Or a molotov. Depending on what you can see of them, you may not be able to tell the difference at all. But the War Veterans with their blue-green-brownish garments still render somewhat the same. You can tell they aren't civis, because they have different clothing. Does that mean to keep up the chirade that civis look just the same as everyone else that we should make the War Veteran wear the white clothing too?

When an Insurgent/RPG is over 200m and not weilding an AK47 or an RPG, there is NO visual difference between them and a civi. Not a single one.

Celestial1 wrote:You seem to be missing the point of my complaint.

It doesn't matter what you're driving, or what you're not driving. The insurgent headgarbs do NOT render after a short distance. They don't. The weapons they carry do, but not the headgarb. And the weapons are not shown on their backs, so it is impossible to distinguish between an Insurgent, RPG kit, or civilian at about 200m plus, if they are not weilding an RPG or an AK-47.

Let me guess, next comment will be "watch what they are doing then", and my response is this: Sometimes, the RPG kit will use his binocs for quite some time, thinking that the armor he is tracking doesn't see him from his rooftop. He may not move, he may not switch weapons. He will often stand there and just use the binocs until he is ready to take the shot. Or an insurgent will be on a rooftop holding an ammo bag. Or a molotov. Depending on what you can see of them, you may not be able to tell the difference at all. But the War Veterans with their blue-green-brownish garments still render somewhat the same. You can tell they aren't civis, because they have different clothing. Does that mean to keep up the chirade that civis look just the same as everyone else that we should make the War Veteran wear the white clothing too?

When an Insurgent/RPG is over 200m and not weilding an AK47 or an RPG, there is NO visual difference between them and a civi. Not a single one.

No, my next comment is, Use and infantry screen, they should form an arc in front of your tank a good fifty to one hundred meters ahead, well within range of your gun, and far enough forward to both direct your fire and eliminate threats before they get too close.

I fully support civies being compleatly indistinguishable from insurgents at range, I feel it better reflects the insurgency aspect of being unable to tell who is friend and who is foe until either careful examination, or shots are fired.

Tirak wrote:No, my next comment is, Use and infantry screen, they should form an arc in front of your tank a good fifty to one hundred meters ahead, well within range of your gun, and far enough forward to both direct your fire and eliminate threats before they get too close.

I fully support civies being compleatly indistinguishable from insurgents at range, I feel it better reflects the insurgency aspect of being unable to tell who is friend and who is foe until either careful examination, or shots are fired.

Right. And the infantry ahead of me will surely be able to render the insurgents on rooftops without headgarbs as not civis.

You would see an RPG on a persons back. You could see an AK-47 if they were carrying one. The game's engine makes it IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish between an RPG/Insurgent and a civi at that distance, infantry or vehicle. In real life, I'm pretty sure something as bulky as an RPG would be relatively easy to spot, especially if you had binoculars, but BF2 doesn't work that way.

I end up trying not to rack up any civi kills while I end up being killed by the 'civi' I've been watching for the past minute who magically procured an RPG.

Celestial1 wrote:Right. And the infantry ahead of me will surely be able to render the insurgents on rooftops without headgarbs as not civis.

You would see an RPG on a persons back. You could see an AK-47 if they were carrying one. The game's engine makes it IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish between an RPG/Insurgent and a civi at that distance, infantry or vehicle. In real life, I'm pretty sure something as bulky as an RPG would be relatively easy to spot, especially if you had binoculars, but BF2 doesn't work that way.

I end up trying not to rack up any civi kills while I end up being killed by the 'civi' I've been watching for the past minute who magically procured an RPG.

Perhaps not the render, but you should not be so close as to offer an easy shot from someone in the city. The rule of armor on Basrah is to never enter the city, too many lines of fire for an armored unit to defend against. An infantry screen will get you through the outskirts and even the villiage as the infantry screen will have found enemies hiding before they can get their shot off accurately, but if you enter the city, there is no tactic to combat that kind of stupidity. And while you may see a rifle or an RPG, if an insurgent was preparing to ambush you and knew he was being observed, he would not have such a weapon in sight, it would be hidden, either buried slightly in the sand or behind some kind of obstruction.

VCP should be capturable again, that actually gave the brits a chance at taking the caches, because 1 or 2 insurgent squads tended to go try and cap the VCP so if the Brits left 1 squad to defend the others would be able to take out the caches just that little bit easier, it also gives the insurgents something to do other than sit in a building with an RPG.

it would draw some of the insurgents away from the objectives. eversince the 0.756 basrah, brits almost always lose

To tell you the truth I don't agree with any of the suggestions (well, a few, but you get the idea). Granted, Al Basrah needs changing, but to me this is a turn in the wrong direction.

Bring back all the caches! It is more fun when you can sweep. More... insurgency-like.

More helicopters! Sure it may be a waste of tickets, but its fun, not to mention VERY realistic. An attack copter wouldn't hurt either...

I do see your point on some issues, though.

Tirak wrote:Perhaps not the render, but you should not be so close as to offer an easy shot from someone in the city. The rule of armor on Basrah is to never enter the city, too many lines of fire for an armored unit to defend against. An infantry screen will get you through the outskirts and even the villiage as the infantry screen will have found enemies hiding before they can get their shot off accurately, but if you enter the city, there is no tactic to combat that kind of stupidity. And while you may see a rifle or an RPG, if an insurgent was preparing to ambush you and knew he was being observed, he would not have such a weapon in sight, it would be hidden, either buried slightly in the sand or behind some kind of obstruction.

I've shot RPGs from about 500-600m from the edge of the city and hit armors with either the first or second shot. I've been hit by RPGs from about that distance. Don't give me that kind of BS.

I'm not talking about in the middle of the damn desert of Al Basrah. I've never shot or seen a civi out there (except for when ambushes to the East of Main are being staged, I'll occasionally see a civi). I'm talking about an insurgent on a rooftop near the outsides of the city. BF2's engine doesn't give that kind of ability to hide weapons. And that RPG would be ON HIS BACK, or IN HIS HANDS, if he was going to be attempting an ambush. They can hide behind something all they want, but their weapons would likely be in their hands getting ready to take a shot, or already shooting.

An infantry screen is not the problem. The infantry screen is good; but you're missing the fact that they're not going to climb every building in the area to check. "Oh, okay this one's a civi, oops this one was an insurgent I just got killed"

The. Problem. Is. The. Headgarb. Not. Rendering.

That's it, that's really it! If it rendered I wouldn't be saying a damn thing! But since it doesn't, there should be some minor way to say "hey, this guy doesn't have a gun, he's not going to kill us, let's not shoot him".