Project Reality Forums

Before you stop reading, understand this.

I've done the research, and it's easier than you think.

Why: Of course we are being overrun by proposals for this country and that, with very few of them bringing anything original to the table as far as gameplay. We have more than enough conventional factions, and I will freely admit that the German Forces, my own brainchild, was pushing the boundaries of the excessive.

So, after a brief discussion with Brummy regarding the Congolese faction, I came up with this idea to bring some new, exciting, fast paced, ambush-oriented gameplay to a mod otherwise consisting of turtle paced conventional warfare. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but a change of pace is always good.

What: I understand the taboo surrounding the Special Forces around here, particularly the SEALs, but with the new kinds of gameplay being offered, we have more options than the mundane point capture system.

The only opponents for the SEALs would be insurgents and the Congolese, the latter being my only focus as of now. The majority of this project would be map making, and I am willing to bear the brunt of that responsibility. If you think it's going to be a lot of work, I have set up one of my world famous spreadsheets to demonstrate the scope of the project.

Google Docs - Navy SEALs Design Plan

As you can see, models would be based off of the Special Forces SEALs and the weapons would be a mixture between M4s and MP5 SMGs. The maps would be objective rather than CP driven, Ie. liberate the villages or perhaps a return of the extraction game mode Ie. SEALs fight their way to a crash site in the jungle, retrieve a pilot (kit), and fight their way out. (Perhaps with 0 respawns)

I'm personally liking the last comment in parenthesis.

Who: That's entirely up to you guys. Is there support for this project?




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Updated Sept. 4, 2008

I made this as a second post to clarify a few things as to how much work would need to be done for those of you who didn't review the design plan before posting: (Link is here)


The biggest project is the creation of a single map for a prototype version. I will handle this responsibility.
(Extraction type gameplay that will resolve quickly. Ideal match length would be 10-20 mins. Congolese can respawn, SEALs cannot.)

The current SF SEAL models and skins are good enough for a basic proof of concept and don't need any work for the time being.

Weapons just require a little bit of coding changes (Take US Army M4s, make automatic, ???, profit!) apart from the MP5s (of which Z-Trooper already modeled a while back) of which only the MP5SD6 needs to be skinned and coded. (The Mk12 SPR w/ silencer made an appearance back in v0.3)

All the vehicles potentially necessary (listed above in the design plan) are already finished and require no work.

This is quite literally all that needs to be done for a concept to be assembled and tested. Gentlemen, this is a very small project so no need to get our panties in a bunch. If we assemble a concept for private download and testing before a possible inclusion in public release, there is really no reason for anyone to fret.

Since its you I'll bite, how would you overcome the problems in primary weapons allocations? e.g. SMG's = good close combat weapons yes? but do you want your AT guy charging in first? would you need a weapon selector as seen in other mods, using the unlock's buttons to make this faction work?

And would the only balance against some of the best trained soldiers be tough objectives, or would the enemy team get extra stuff?

This might work but one of two things are going to happen.

1. This idea will be shot down
2. This will be a idea everyone wants

Now i reckon it would be better if it was the Australian SASR lol J/K... I am behind this idea... I might be able to help with some small stuff depending on what it is and if i can slide it in somewhere lol.

Dr2B Rudd wrote:Since its you I'll bite, how would you overcome the problems in primary weapons allocations? e.g. SMG's = good close combat weapons yes? but do you want your AT guy charging in first? would you need a weapon selector as seen in other mods, using the unlock's buttons to make this faction work?

And would the only balance against some of the best trained soldiers be tough objectives, or would the enemy team get extra stuff?

Well, that's something I probably should have addressed earlier. As far as the SMGs, look here- A4 is already made. They will replace assault rifles on certain kits usually with ironsights. Certain roles would be modified, such as the engineer. Instead he is a demolitions expert armed with a silenced MP5. It is spelled out better in the spreadsheet at any rate.

As far as balance goes, I designed them to be balanced given their objectives needed to win. One map I have been conceptualizing involves SEALs paradropping into the ocean to awaiting RIBs. They will land into a dense jungle with the objective of reaching a crash site and retrieving a pilot kit (one member becomes the pilot) and bringing it back out to the ocean for extraction.

However, the Congolese will enter from another side of the map and it will hopefully play out like a stealthy version of capture the flag. I would like to add one twist though, the Congolese can respawn, the SEALs however cannot. Given the match length, I don't see this being a problem.

But again, just some ideas. I don't know how this project will pan out yet.

I'll help, just lead me know (I'm great with stupidly repitive/boring txt work, I'm good with mapping, I'm ok with skinning and I've just begun modeling). I'm not sure how the Devs will react to this, I know that Rhino doesn't like the idea of an SF faction too much (due to conversations regarding PMC faction).
Also, I don't see how the Support Truck is going to fit into the Seals. First, Seals don't really build stuff, it's in and out. Also, I'd suggest the Support HMMWV if you do have them building. Also, I feel like more weapons should have the option of being silenced. I'm not saying make every weapon have a silencer, but if you have a night map, I really think most of the weapons should be silenced.
Also, what are we going to do about SCUBA and SDVs (Seal Delivery Vehicles). I guess we could ask NAW about how they did submarines, but I'm not feeling any real ability for BF2 to have serious underwater operations. Then again we could just have them only use RIBs, whatever you think.
Also, will Seals only fight the Congolese and is there much information about US operations in the Zaire/DRC?

If you need any help coding this,I'll be glad to help.might even give making some textures a try
I ope eventually we can have special forces for all the conventional armies

Bear with me because I'm basing this of of BF2 SF, but don't the SEALS use the SCAR rifles? Plus the skin from BF2 SF could be suffice enough until newer skins are made.

steve_06-07 wrote:Bear with me because I'm basing this of of BF2 SF, but don't the SEALS use the SCAR rifles? Plus the skin from BF2 SF could be suffice enough until newer skins are made.

SEALs use a lot of things, so we have a little bit of artistic license. I don't want to get too complicated though. I'd prefer to use the stuff we already have.

EOD_Security-2252 wrote:I'll help, just lead me know (I'm great with stupidly repitive/boring txt work, I'm good with mapping, I'm ok with skinning and I've just begun modeling). I'm not sure how the Devs will react to this, I know that Rhino doesn't like the idea of an SF faction too much (due to conversations regarding PMC faction).
Also, I don't see how the Support Truck is going to fit into the Seals. First, Seals don't really build stuff, it's in and out. Also, I'd suggest the Support HMMWV if you do have them building. Also, I feel like more weapons should have the option of being silenced. I'm not saying make every weapon have a silencer, but if you have a night map, I really think most of the weapons should be silenced.
Also, what are we going to do about SCUBA and SDVs (Seal Delivery Vehicles). I guess we could ask NAW about how they did submarines, but I'm not feeling any real ability for BF2 to have serious underwater operations. Then again we could just have them only use RIBs, whatever you think.
Also, will Seals only fight the Congolese and is there much information about US operations in the Zaire/DRC?

In response to this, I should probably say think out of the box, but don't think too much out of the box. If this gets put together, I don't want them put in a conventional environment. On the same note, I want to have a prototype version put out very quickly so I don't want to get involved in any of the more complicated stuff, yet. Again, we will see how this goes.

I support the idea, I'd help but I'm stumbleing through modeling a cube as my first project and College is ramping up. I'm good for helping with ideas, but I suppose everyone's good at that

I usually support you red, but this time im afraid not.

i don't think pr should focus on the small battles going on behind the lines. cqb, and all that fancy stuff is just not good in pr.

i love the idea, ive been dreaming about it too.

Maybe after 1.0, the mod is well estabilshed it can focus on other things, but i don't think we should be dragging away from what devs want to do right now with the mod.

anyway, good luck if this lifts off

Sounds like a great idea, just a few thoughts what about maps the SEALS are in the Navy as you know and i was wondoring, if this is appoved by the devs will there be Sea to land maps where blackhawks can extract Seals to an aircaraft carrier or bring them place to place also could there be F/A 18 Hornets to give close air support or have unlimited Artillery support sense you might have no respawn. I was looking at your list of weapons and thought maybe you guys could make more unique weapons such as M60, would love to see that ingame, here is a list of some guns that Seals use:
Handguns:
MK23 Mod 0 .45 cal SOCOM Offensive Handgun
M11 Sig Sauer P228 (9mm)
Assault Rifles:
M4A1 with SOPMOD Accessory Kit (5.56mm)
Sniper Rifles:
M14 Sniper Rifle (7.62mm)
MK11 Mod 0 Sniper Weapon System (7.62mm)
M82A1 Heavy Sniper Rifle (.50 cal)
Submachine Guns:
HK MP5 Submachine Gun (9mm)
Machine Guns:
M60E3 Machine Gun and MK43 Mod 0 (7.62mm)
M240 (7.62mm)
Combat Shotguns:
Benelli M4 Super 90 Shotgun
Grenade Launchers :
M203 Grenade Launcher (40mm)
Mortars :
M224 Mortar (60mm)
Anti-Tank Rockets :
M136 AT4 Light Anti-Tank Rocket

i found these at:Weapons & Demo | NavySEALs.com - Experience the SEAL Edge
I might just be getting ahead of myself but still like to help out

HughJass wrote:I usually support you red, but this time im afraid not.

i don't think pr should focus on the small battles going on behind the lines. cqb, and all that fancy stuff is just not good in pr.

i love the idea, ive been dreaming about it too.

Maybe after 1.0, the mod is well estabilshed it can focus on other things, but i don't think we should be dragging away from what devs want to do right now with the mod.

anyway, good luck if this lifts off

I fully see and respect your point, I just don't believe that this project would in any way detract from the work of the devs, rather compliment it. I suppose the fact that I am using the SEALs will immediately conjure images of HALO jumps and a handful of men taking on an entire army with ease, but that's really not what I was going for. It's difficult to adequately portray one's mental image of a project to everyone accurately, but what I have in mind is light infantry engagements and maneuvering on a very micro scale driven by specific team objectives, not necessarily Hollywood-esque special forces.

I hope this clarifies it somewhat, but at the risk of sounding redundant, we'll see.

MK14 MOD0! (aka the M14 EBR) I hate you mess with your design plan anymore, but EBR is just plain awesome.
On a more serious note, after thinking, Seals should probably not get M4s for the most part. The main complaint of SF operators is that the 5.56 does a bad job actually putting people down. I would suggest an M4 variant that fires the 6.8 SPC round (there is a Barrett, there is a Rock River Arms and I think another). Basically, you'd just need to reskin and modify the code to make the M4 into a carbine that fires one of the intermediary rounds (ie. between, not including, 5.56 and 7.62)

There is a problem I can see with such a faction. In reality the SEAL's are an extremely well trained fighting force of men. Thus, their weapon handling skills should be at a very high standard. If you went ahead and coded their weapons to be more accurate than normal then whoever picks them up will be able to shoot like a SEAL. When an untrained insurgent picks up a SEAL's weapon he'll be able to shoot like one. What I suggest is removing the pickup ability altogether if it is at all possible.

I think that this faction would be perfect to fight the Democratic Republic of Congo Military. Also, they could use the littlebirds for helicopters instead of Blackhawks. Maybe they could operate in "Skirmish" sized maps.

Another US faction? SF?
Oh, come on.

If you want custom kit geometries done, I'm in, not necessarily because I like the idea, but because it will be fun to model them.

-REad

I'd agree only on 2 occasions.

1. Let them really be Special forces. No building involved.

2. Bring back the P226.

if you got rid of all vehicles (excluding jeeps)

then that would be good