Project Reality Forums

At the momment aircrafts are waaay too unrealistical on how they fly, and on how the pilots fly them (nowadays planes don't do bomb drops at 30m from the ground ).

So this is my suggestion, sure it may piss off some plane pilots but I don't think pilotable planes have a place in this game. Maps are way too small for realistical implementation of airplanes and you can't even fly above 500m of altitude.

So for the suggestion I was thinking you could remove pilotable airplanes and replace them with callable airstrikes (like artillery) but with some variations.

1- To call an air strike you would need to have a valid target and a squad would have to request it and the commander aprove it. Commanders wouldn't be able to call in an airstrike wiithout a request from the squads.

2- Upon asking for an airstrike you should be able to choose from 2 kinds, precision strike (a maverick missile for example, to kill an enemy vehicle or maybe a squad in the top of a roof), and carpet bombing, or at least an attack that does a lot of damage to an area.

3- After asking for the airstrike, you would have to wait maybe 30 seconds (lets presume we already have F15s and b2s in the air awaiting orders) for the actual airstrike to ocur, and after it's done you would have to wait around 4 or 5 minutes to get more airplanes in the air or to get the current ones refilled on ammo.

4- The airstrike airplanes would be targetable by AAs so you can defend your self from them.

5- To call for the airstrike you would need to use a laser designator (for static targets, for the area bombings) and just to give out your coordinates and target the enemy vehicle for the airplane team to fly in that general area, find the vehicle using the onboard camera and shoot it down).

6- Also airplanes would be somewhat intelligent, if you asked for an area bombing but all of a sudden the enemies moved out, you could "tell" the pilot that the target is on the move and they would make the needed course changes.

7- Airplane kills will not count to anyone's score (maybe commander's), reducing enemy's tickets and saving your squad is good enough).


I think this would lead to a much more realistic approach to aircrafts in the game, and their functionality would still be there. (Let's face it, in real life airplanes don't go on frenetic "dumb bomb" drops while there are so many friendlies in the area).

What do you guys think of the suggestion? And please, keep the flaming out.

Edit: Oh and P.S.: Not every map would have airstrikes available.

Its a good idea in theory for only specific maps. If you add a laser targetter however you could add it as a targettable thing for Flyable planes, because there are some maps where having an intelligent pilot in the air is VERY useful, like Gulf of Oman where you can do gun runs with the JSF, or on other maps of that size. But our planes can never be realistic until they get realistic armaments... An F15 carries a HELL of a lot more than 5 bombs... Also the Marine COrps dont even OPERATE the F15E, the AIRFORCE does... The only planes the Marine Corps operates is the F18, the Harrier, and a few bombers...

I would never want to see aircraft taken out of the game, the BF2 engine allows for a multitude of vehicles to be used so why not put it to good use?
Some people like tanks, others like helicopters, People say planes arent realistic in the game, well neither are helicopters, you think its that easy to fly copters in RL? or tanks it requires teamwork and training to operate one in real life, but i guess all the blame goes to the aircraft .

Besides, i think the devs arent going to take this approach, as why would the model, skin, and code the Harrier GR7+cockpit in game if they didnt want people to have the oppurtunity to fly them?

Plane: http://realitymod.com/forum/t3060-merry ... unity.html
Cockpit:http://realitymod.com/forum/t3021-uk-sk ... quiem.html

Umm, helicopters are a hella more realistic in the game than airplanes are, and airplanes will NEVER be realistic in this game if they are pilotable, helicopters can be because helicopters do fly at the altitude they currently do. Just replace the tvgm with the current laser guided missile in the airplane and they will be much more realistic.

Same said to armor, increase the hp and add a third seat for the gunner and you'll have realistic armor.

Could you tell me how to make realistic airplanes in the game that are pilotable? And in realistic read, no nosedives shooting the vulcans full auto, high altitude bombing runs and somewhat realistic logistics (planes can't get ammo by just flying over an airfield and they have limited fuel so they would either need to add in flight refueling or the airplane would have to land).

And razers, I do think the USMC operates as a taskforce with the USAF, because many of the tactical bombings in Iraq are done by F15s I belive. (maybe a military advisor could tell us better? and I only used F15s as an example).

I think using the planes as arty is used in vanilla is the way to go.

Leave pilots right out of it and still be able to use the fire power in a more realistic fashion.

BS

http://realitymod.com/forum/showpost.ph ... stcount=49

And on the refueling, most matchs dont last that long, maybe 30-40 minutes tops in PRMM, A fighter,bomber can be on station for that amount of time, besides have you noticed that most of the plane models carry fuel tanks?.

You are saying you want pilotable aircraft removed becuase they arent realistic, well i dont think we can get them up to par with Falcon 4.0, but if you wish to place such prejudice upon aircraft, why dont you take a closer look at helicopters, yes they operate at those same altitudes, but there is a magnitude of different things, weapons, copter handling in particular, and range, not to mention their avionics. switching out their weapon loadouts doesnt make the copter more realistic, if you believe so then lets give planes their realistic loadouts, problem solved.

Will you ever be able to get copters,planes and tanks completely realistic in this mod? probably not, but you can make them as close as they can with respects to engine limitations.

I don't think that cutting out jets because we can't think of a way to make the perfectly realistic is the way to go ...

As for the armour and helicopters ...

The helos in BF2 are very realistic.

They can take multiple (10 +, yes thats right 10 +) 25 mm HIGH EXPLOSIVE rounds. They can "bump" into trees/ground and it has practically no effect, and the main think that MAKES a helo isn't even represented in the game: the blades. Now come on, you just CAN'T fly through power lines/trees or bounce off buildings and expect to still be in the air, let alone still able to FLY the damn thing .

The tanks in BF2 are not much better.

The best way to stay alive in a tank is to "strafe" forward and backwards as fast as you can, that way the APFDS rounds don't hit you ... come on now .

All I'm trying to say is that even if the vehicle in question isn't up to par on realism, its no reason to cut it, first we must at least ATTEMPT to make it as realistic as possible (with gameplay not being terrible of course), and THEN let the Devs make a descsion to cut it or not. As far as I know, PR hasn't done too much to the jets yet, once they try to "fix" them, then we can make start talk about cutting 'em.

Oh, and I'm actually more of an infantry man myself, but taking out vehicles will make this mod less enjoyable because not every game out there has such a wide variety of options to the player and taking them away would be taking away some of that choice that makes the mod so appealing.


In the end, it's all about balance, be it balance through nerfing or balance through well thought out plans .

EDIT: Addition:

Could you tell me how to make realistic airplanes in the game that are pilotable? And in realistic read, no nosedives shooting the vulcans full auto, high altitude bombing runs and somewhat realistic logistics (planes can't get ammo by just flying over an airfield and they have limited fuel so they would either need to add in flight refueling or the airplane would have to land).

Well, to prevent the "nosedives", just try adjusting the flight phsyics (or controls if the physics aren't editable or such) to make pulling out of a 1000 kph nosedive a tad bit harder . For the high-altitude bombing runs, make the AA vehicles/placements actually KILL the planes/choppers so they don't think about killing them, more about flying away before they are turned into pretty looking dust and also add in some laser designation or let the commander make a bombing way point so you can use the GPS targeting ... theres a lot of options. The "somewhat realistic" logistics is also a fairly easy fix, let the planes only rearm in a NEWLY modelled hangar, one with a WALL at the back (oh my!) that way jets can't just fly through the hangar to get rearmed, while you're at it make the rearm take longer. The re-fueling just plain isn't necessary, on average how long does a plane even stay ALIVE in PRMM? 5-10 minutes, maybe 20 minutes if you're good? I think the plane has enough fuel for that, even if they are doing some fuel-wasting manuevers.

Well, even if the devs aren't able to make completely realistic choppers and tanks, they will still be MUCH closer to reality than they will ever be able to make airplanes. It's not feasable to make planes in bf2 "realistic" if they are pilotable. To be realistic they would have to fly higher altitudes than 500m (much higher) and they shouldn't be able to do such slow flying as they do now, because they would stall if they did so in real life.

The vulcans shouldn't be able to be fired for much more than short bursts on the fear of melting the gun and the missile payload should be much bigger.

Also they would to implement smart bombs and enlarge the maps to a degree where you could fly the plane for long time enough to properly aim the payload.

Not gonna happen.

beta wrote:I don't think that cutting out jets because we can't think of a way to make the perfectly realistic is the way to go ...

As for the armour and helicopters ...

The helos in BF2 are very realistic.

They can take multiple (10 +, yes thats right 10 +) 25 mm HIGH EXPLOSIVE rounds. They can "bump" into trees/ground and it has practically no effect, and the main think that MAKES a helo isn't even represented in the game: the blades. Now come on, you just CAN'T fly through power lines/trees or bounce off buildings and expect to still be in the air, let alone still able to FLY the damn thing .

The tanks in BF2 are not much better.

The best way to stay alive in a tank is to "strafe" forward and backwards as fast as you can, that way the APFDS rounds don't hit you ... come on now .

All I'm trying to say is that even if the vehicle in question isn't up to par on realism, its no reason to cut it, first we must at least ATTEMPT to make it as realistic as possible (with gameplay not being terrible of course), and THEN let the Devs make a descsion to cut it or not. As far as I know, PR hasn't done too much to the jets yet, once they try to "fix" them, then we can make start talk about cutting 'em.

Oh, and I'm actually more of an infantry man myself, but taking out vehicles will make this mod less enjoyable because not every game out there has such a wide variety of options to the player and taking them away would be taking away some of that choice that makes the mod so appealing.


In the end, it's all about balance, be it balance through nerfing or balance through well thought out plans .

EDIT: Addition:



Well, to prevent the "nosedives", just try adjusting the flight phsyics (or controls if the physics aren't editable or such) to make pulling out of a 1000 kph nosedive a tad bit harder . For the high-altitude bombing runs, make the AA vehicles/placements actually KILL the planes/choppers so they don't think about killing them, more about flying away before they are turned into pretty looking dust and also add in some laser designation or let the commander make a bombing way point so you can use the GPS targeting ... theres a lot of options. The "somewhat realistic" logistics is also a fairly easy fix, let the planes only rearm in a NEWLY modelled hangar, one with a WALL at the back (oh my!) that way jets can't just fly through the hangar to get rearmed, while you're at it make the rearm take longer. The re-fueling just plain isn't necessary, on average how long does a plane even stay ALIVE in PRMM? 5-10 minutes, maybe 20 minutes if you're good? I think the plane has enough fuel for that, even if they are doing some fuel-wasting manuevers.

I'm not saying take out jets, they would still be targetable by AA's when used and maybe visible during the day as tiny shiny spots. Their vapor traces would also be visible in the air, they would just not be pilotable.

BF2 is not a great vehicle sim but we are taking measures to try and improve upon that, and will continue to do so. A lot of people would like to see vehicles removed and go to pure infantry play, but then ... that's rather silly as there are many better engines out there to mod for purely foot soldier play.

BF2 has a great mix of vehicles and capabilities and we're going to continue to build on that to make a great mod that takes advantage of the capabilities of the engine (and do our best to work around the weaknesses).

egg