Project Reality Forums

Why does everyone want the planes, only to get in it and realize they're effectively blind? AFAIK the spotter is the most powerful unit on the battlefield as he/she is the person who controls where that firepower goes (why does no one want to do this?). If you want a plane so much, either you have a spotter or you must be an idiot.

The problem is that nobody wants to do the job of "Spoting" as there is no points/kills in it. Lame I know but that's how it is. I Am known for my "Spotting for CAS" skills. But I am in fact a better Jet pilot. But I am just finding it to much like hard work to get in a jet only to have to teach a new spotter every game I am flying. I Must spent about 1 hour a game trying to teach a player how to spot/laze. I Am just getting board of it. And with the way the new spotting system works now. They can't really spot any more unless there is a commander. But nobody wants that job now as it is so boring. Commander are so blind unless the Squad leaders tell him what they see. And that just does not happen. So the Commander gets board and leaves the job. Before the Commander with move/direct troops/tanks/APC/Whatever to what he saw by the "manual" spot system that was in 0.75.

Now nobody can spot unless they place a "move/attack/defend/mine/repair" maker and then hit "Q" comro rose. I Must say I don't like this system at all. i do hope that the feed back about this goes the way of changing back to pre .08 system.

What you now see is player typing like mad trying to tell each other what they see only to get killed as they type. I Am sorry. I Want to play the game. Not spent haft the game practicing my typing skills. Before you could just Q Spot something and it would be on the map. It was then up the the other players to check there map. If they did not, Well tough.

I suppose acting as a spotter is one of those things that people don't wanna do due to the teamwork it requires, as they expect they can't count on their teammates (waiting in main for 10 minutes for a gunner for your tank comes to mind). Yeah, you can join the pilot squad and grab a specops kit to go spotting, but I expect that people don't trust their teammates to actually come in and attack the targets. Either that, or the issues that arise when the spotter gets himself killed, or the plane goes down, requiring several minutes of reorganization to get both elements in place again. On top of that, most people don't like staring through a pair of binoculars for minutes at a time and trying to sneak by during the rest of the time. Personally, I found it fun in a training server, but what do I know...

As to infantry SLs spotting, it's one of those things that requires too much teamwork and patience for most people to consider, just like calling in an APC to transport you instead of a chopper. You can lase a target, but you need to communicate the coordinates to the aircraft and then wait for him to get around to taking the target out. That is, assuming it goes right. If it doesn't you're left yelling at the CAS plane to come over or herding your squad behind you as they lose patience and run out into the open revealing your position to whatever you're trying to take out.

So, that's my guess.

actually i would be spotter all the time in any game possible. Problem is that when you get the spotter job there is nothign to spot, and when u relinquish that spotter job, THEN something comes along and you dont have it anymore. Being spotter means being alot more patient than the sniper.... Those tanks dont appear on the battlefield like any other vehicle. People use them like they are snipers in ghillie suits, its funny, but true.

attack jets < fighter jets

ehh?

PlatinumA1 wrote:attack jets < fighter jets

Well,that was off-topic...

Anyways, even though the CAS aircraft ain't useless without a spotter it can still perform a lot better with a spotter.
But the job of being a spotter can be very boring sometimes, and a lot of people want atleast some action while they are playing PR.

But you also have to remember that there are often "CAS" squads, and those squads usually hold about 4 people, when one of them get an A-10 atleast one or two of them will grab a officer/Spec op and go out in the field to spot for them, this does not show very good unless you're in the squad itself, but it happens often.

Oddsodz wrote:They can't really spot any more unless there is a commander. But nobody wants that job now as it is so boring. Commander are so blind unless the Squad leaders tell him what they see. And that just does not happen. So the Commander gets board and leaves the job. Before the Commander with move/direct troops/tanks/APC/Whatever to what he saw by the "manual" spot system that was in 0.75.

I respectfully disagree here, most think that commander is boring, I however find it incredibly intense these days, due to the simple little contact report Icons. I constantly get reports of enemy contacts, and inform other squads of it.

One of the most satisfying things was hearing one squad going '**** We are getting raped by a tank! WE NEED air support NOW!!'

Then simply talking to them 'Roger, give me some coordinates, and an attack marker, and I will order a A-10 mission, over.'

'Roger that! HURRY UP!'

*Me to the A-10*

'A-10, this is command over, you have an AAV in Charlie-6-6, be advised. Attack mission on this marker, D-2-3, target is lazed.'

'Roger that, on the way'

Then hearing the squad saying 'Woah, thanks man, good job'.

I felt so happy, because there is no way that information would have been passed without a commander or the guy's sharing a TS channel (Which on a pub server they werent).

More people should try commanding, its much more about coordination thesedays, and passing information over to different squads. I personally find it really satisfying.

And as for spotting - I forget which server it was, but we were on EJOD desert as MEC. Well my squad took up fighting positions in the gardens and held for as long as possible before pulling back to those barracks just behind, and from there I was using my bino's to call out targets for the marksmen and guys with scopes on their rifles. Then when someone would get hit, I'd run over and take care of them, then go back to spotting.

it was a really good time, and while we still got raped, I felt like I was doing alot to help my squad out with defense.

Then later on, I was doing the same thing on a different map, because I can't hit anything no matter how hard I try, so I was again calling out targets for the shooters and that worked out pretty well.

its the same probl. as in many other things... The most guys dont know what to do and so nothing comes out ...

I like to be the spotter. Its the only one who sees the big boom. And the bomb´s make a realy big boom

But you need a good pilot to get this work. Also you need to know how the soflam works.

The most time we make this with or own clan members.

The officer is the spotter, and he is able to set up markers for the jet...

Works pretty well. And btw if the guys in air know what they do you dont even need a commander.

Call out cas per chat... : Tank @ D3 kpd 5, laser is up if you are on the run...

Pilot confirms, open the map and when hes is on the run set laser down. Thats all a good pilot crew needs...

Or if only 2 guys fly this things, the gunners has to be the SL. So he is able to set marks on the targets that called out per chat...and the pilot only has to fly...and check for air targets

And i forgot something for the devs. Why there are no more light transport vehicles(dirtbikes, jeeps, quads) and so on on the maps? How can a Sniper/spotter or whatever special team move fast arround the map without stealing the full sq there vehicles?

Would be nice to see more quads and dirt bikes to give the small sq more room to move... Because by food your a useless as spotter, you cant move fast enough...

Noobofthenight wrote:I respectfully disagree here, most think that commander is boring, I however find it incredibly intense these days, due to the simple little contact report Icons. I constantly get reports of enemy contacts, and inform other squads of it.

One of the most satisfying things was hearing one squad going '**** We are getting raped by a tank! WE NEED air support NOW!!'

Then simply talking to them 'Roger, give me some coordinates, and an attack marker, and I will order a A-10 mission, over.'

'Roger that! HURRY UP!'

*Me to the A-10*

'A-10, this is command over, you have an AAV in Charlie-6-6, be advised. Attack mission on this marker, D-2-3, target is lazed.'

'Roger that, on the way'

Then hearing the squad saying 'Woah, thanks man, good job'.

I felt so happy, because there is no way that information would have been passed without a commander or the guy's sharing a TS channel (Which on a pub server they werent).

More people should try commanding, its much more about coordination thesedays, and passing information over to different squads. I personally find it really satisfying.

And that's great when that happens. No doubt about it. But as I said, The commander can only do that if he gets good intel. If the Squad leaders are not on the ball. Then the commander gets board and resigns. That's what I have seen lately. And there lies the problem. No commander = no good intel at all. just a lot of player typing and getting killed doing it.

we had a round on qinling where we were brits at coal mine.

Commander gave me both CAS units at my squads beckoned call and all the tanks aa etc went elsewhere...

Result? APC x2 Tanks spotted, lasing tank one marker on map 40 secs later *woooosh* BOOM GOOD HIT TANK DOWN!
APC Lased *Woooooosh* BOOM APC HIT, DOWN!

Gime CAS chopper for support, chopper flies over SECOND TANK IS DOWN GIVE ME A C.A.P with that apache until further notice...

Job done

personaly for me

CAS is great. but way way to complicated to achive

1 squad need a spotter...
2 spotter spot something...
3 everyone is wildly typing..
4 SL pass the info to the comm..
5 comm make a CAS marker on the map...
6 spotter need to laser the target...
7 plane need to be armed and ready.
8 plane need to be in a 1 man squad for the best comminication to the Comm..
9 plane recieve the CAS marker...
10 plane squad recive new attack order to CAS marker..
11 plane says jes. and flys to cordinates..
12 plane lookon and kill

12 steps and reqciverment to kill 1 tank.
the better option was to send a attack chopper, or a HAT dude. they could do the job too.
if the PLane and spotter is in the same squad.its almost impossible for the pilot the diffirincate the "attack" order: if it means CAS, or a normal squad order?

my suggestion is.

SQL get the ability to mark targets as in earlier versions found. its places directly the RIGHT type of enemy marker, whitout permission of the commander. after 10 seconds its gone. but when the COMM "agreees" whit this spotting, it will last for 30 seconds.
+
CAS is a SL order. it can be issued in the binuculars.

1. spotter find a target and put a CAS marker on it. plane and spotter are in the same squad.
2. spotter lase the target and notifie the team whit the "laser target sett" roseoption
3. target is lased and plane can see that its a special CAS marker. (and not a standart attack order ) "laser target sett" massage will reach the entire team.
4. plane confirms, fly, see the target and dive for the kill.

just 4.

and to be bruatly honest. i commanded on barracuda 2 hours. IT WAS JUST BOOORING!!

cant the CO mark targets even with his red target CAS marker via Command map?

So the squads only have to set a marker on it CO puts his red thingy on it and voila its lazed even without spotter? Or does it only work for bombs?

ah jeah. he can, but its very very inaccurate. and well.. if the cominication is right that can work.

HunterMed wrote:cant the CO mark targets even with his red target CAS marker via Command map?

So the squads only have to set a marker on it CO puts his red thingy on it and voila its lazed even without spotter? Or does it only work for bombs?

That was the case in .75 But not any more. Commander can not lay down a RED "lazier" marker any more. It's just a red maker now. That is a good thing anyway as it really was very very inaccurate. And if a team member WAS lazing the target at the same time it would confuse the pilot as he would not have time to work out witch laze was the right one to hit.

The Commander Red marker is now just to say that "Fire Support" is need here. The Yellow one is the CAS marker. Meant to indicate that a target is (hopfuly) lazed at that map coordinate.

The problem is not the need of a spotter; the problem is the hesitation of squads to call in air support, especially if there is a commander.


For the love of god, USE AIR SUPPORT. That cobra on muttrah, I figure, could be DEVASTATING, if every single squad on the MEC was found, spotted, and reported. I can only imagine how easily the MEC could be pushed back if CAS was used properly with a commander. Don't HESITATE to ask for air support, even if you think you don't need it. Sometimes all it takes is a single attack chopper spray-n-pray'in at the attack order, and it can reduce enemy numbers significantly.


Instead of worrying that the 'attack chopper has something better to do', let the commander sort out the CAS, and inform them where and what to hit.


For those of you who say the commanding portion is boring, I find it more interesting in v0.8. Due to the large abandon of lifeless tactics, and more focus on survival of your individual soldier, fights become VERY intense and sometimes require the backup of another squad, instead of (as previously in v0.75) a squad continually respawning at their rally and just eventually taking out the flag.

If you have the time, donate a round (especially on a map that you just DON'T like playing) to commanding. Go grab some popcorn, a drink, turn on the boob-tube and enjoy telling squads where to go. It can really save a team with lackluster skill/coordination.

well.. i never seen a squad in the server who actually refuses to use CAS. the thing is just that
A. someone lasing the target. but the commander have better things to do, most likely handling the 2 tank squads.

B. someone who isnt SQL lasing the target. means none know where it is, and the SQL is somewhere else.

C. its needs to much for the actual gameplay impact it couses. or just plain stupid: it must through too many communication stations and require too many actions and communication (for people whitout voip I.E. everyone in european servers ) just to take out 1 tank. in the number 1.

D. the main problem is that no direct spotter -> plane communication is there. please let the SQL be able to place a commander CAS symbol on the map. just that and everyone will be happy.

solution:
1. let the SQL be able to set a CAS marker on the map, just like the one the commander has.
2. a additional special order. i dont know if its possible to add a "attack order" like "CAS order" marker which can only be seen by pilots.

daranz wrote: Yeah, you can join the pilot squad and grab a specops kit to go spotting,

No you can't, they are grabbed up as soon as the game starts so people can get the "ultra sweet" silenced pistol. Then the kit spends the rest of the time floating around on the enemy team.

i dont see the point anyway why the special ops have a laser binuc.. he isnt a squadleader, so he cant set a marker on the target. ergo the comm cant see the target to send it to the bomber.