Project Reality Forums

Here's a new map idea:

April 2003 THUNDER RUN on Highway 8 into Baghdad.

But please use real life satellite images, maps, & videos/ photographs if you do this. It would look like a cross between PR Mod Ramiel, Armored Fury: Operation Road Rage, with something like Al Basrah's Airport at the end.

To simulate thousands of fanatical Iraqis/ Insurgents, give them LOTS of fast respawns w/. short respawn times (3 seconds or less like in training mode.) But the US would still have normal respawn times for infantry & crewmen. The Iraqis/ Insurgents should have unlimited tickets but the US should have limited tickets. Otherwise, the Iraqi-to-US respawn ratio should be something like 15:1 or 20:1.

As each re-cappable strongpoint/ objective is captured (Larry, Moe, Curly, etc...) the Iraqis/ Insurgents lose a CP along the highway. Have LOTS of CP's along the highway. But have LOTS of caches/ respawn points with RPGs & MGs that do not disappear when CPs are captured by US. Don't be cheap with RPG's as a lot are required to slow a Thunder Run.


When the US has captured most of the CP's, a (quickly respawning) Fuel Truck (which requires lots of bullets to destroy) and/ or Supply Truck must go up the road & catch up to the tanks @ a reload/ resupply point with APC & Humvee escort before moving on to the last couple CPs. This will make for lots of burning wreckages and add an extra challenge for the US toward the end of the game. Engineers could ride on the tops of the tanks in the MG turrets until the Fuel & Supply Trucks spawn at the US base when the tanks have reached some of the last CPs. The engineers would have to go back & drive the Fuel & Supply Trucks up the map to (at least one of) the surviving tanks holding ground before code amber turned to code black. The drivers of the Fuel & Supply Trucks should be able to duck when under light arms fire but, of course, temporarily look up to see where they're going.

The first half/ third of the map would be linear with the US moving forward along the highway that eventually hooked left toward the airport with the Iraqi/ Insurgent OPFOR attacking from the sides. (Make it possible to take a wrong turn or exit to the airport.) The second half of the battle would open-up into more of a 360 battle once arriving at the palace and/ or airport


US Assets:
9 M1A1 tanks
3 Bradleys
Fuel Truck - (lots of bullets to destroy it,
separate time limits in molotov fire to destroy cab & fuel tank,
2 rpg's to destroy the cab part; 1st rpg to ignite the fuel part; 2nd rpg to obliterate the fuel part; so potentially 3 rpg hits before the fuel truck is stopped.)
Supply Truck
4 Humvees - (2 with .50 cal and 2 with MK-19 automatic grenade launcher)
Reduce vehicle respawn times to simulate lots of vehicles OR
actually have rows of vehicles at the base for a total of 36 tanks, 12 bradleys, 16 humvees, etc..., with regular respawn times.


Insurgent/ Iraqi Assets:
AA Machine Guns (Deployable; eliminate limits)
HMGs (Deployable; eliminate limits)
Forward Firebases with Assets (eliminate asset & firebase limits because it's an entire city versus a company - Insurgents/ Iraqis will be constantly busy building & fighting to stop the advance.)
LOTS of RPG-7s (each tank requires 5 rpg's so there'll be lots of rpg's flying)
NO Heavy AT kits.
Mortars (that you can actually crew; no 30 minute wait BS, please)
Suicide Cars/ Taxi-Cabs/ Pickups
Technicals
2 BMPs.
2 BRDMs.
6 Vodniks.
Reduce vehicle respawn times to simulate lots of vehicles.
Let the Insurgents/ Iraqis set up rally points & firebases.


This would be a really intense PR map IMHO. It would also be a very new type of map, as well.

Here's a YouTube clip that I'm sure many of you have seen:
YouTube - 3rd ID TF 1-64 Baghdad Thunder Run

Here's the riveting story of how the US almost lost that pivotal battle:
The Thunder Run - Los Angeles Times

Wrong Place for this, you want Community Modding further down the main page, where the response will probably map it yourself.

Yes, Tirak, I looked already.
No, Tirak, this post does not belong there.
It belongs in Suggestions.
Thanks.

Some videos of what the first part of the map would look like:

April 2003 Thunder Run:
YouTube - 3rd ID TF 1-64 Baghdad Thunder Run

Irish Guards Advance on Basrah Parts 1 thru 3:
YouTube - Irish Guards Advance on Basrah pt1
YouTube - Irish Guards Advance on Basrah pt2
YouTube - Irish Guards Advance on Basrah pt3

"Steel Beasts" Tank-Simulator Thunder Run Map:
YouTube - Thunder run - streets of Baghdad in Steel Beasts


In the map, just as in the videos, the rally points would be in the city but at least between 200 & 300 meters from the highway with an open field of fire in between. The insurgents/ opfor would have to shoot the rpg's across this distance at moving targets that are varying their speed. In the video, I counted at least 5 rpg's that missed the tank. You can hear four fly by. One hits the ground between the camera & the tank ahead. Since the video was edited, there must have been more. It takes 5 rpg's hitting the front or the side to blow up a tank in the game. You can't hit the top because of the angle between the rooftops & the highway. And you can't hit the rear because the tanks are in a line. Also, in that actual real-life battle, suicide cars & trucks did, in fact, throw themselves at the tanks but with little or no effect. They would be very easy to spot since there would be no obstructions except for overpasses.

However, in the game, ambushers do, indeed, pose a problem. I'm not sure if there were any IED's in the video. And I don't remember how many it takes to obliterate 1 tank in the game. To patch this, for the purposes of the game, you'd have to manipulate the spawn points again. And have pick-up trucks, cars, & motorcycles by the highway placed far from the spawn points in the city or near the spawn points in the city that are farthest from the highway - remember, everyone's in the city not by the highway which is a distance away. This would make the timing close so that the insurgents/ opfor would be in visual range of the forward-advancing tanks' optics when they got to the highway. And anyone trying to make it to the road on foot without a vehicle would be caught out in the open in the time that it took to run/ walk. Also, since vehicles are bigger, you'd see them in the distance more easily.

The key for the armor would be to keep moving, so as not to allow the opposing infantry enough time to get set up ahead of them. The convoy would capture the CP's on the move as the convoy rolled through it. The gunner would have to shoot at targets on the move. The tank could slow down but couldn't fully stop or at least not for very long. The road would be smooth and so there wouldn't be any bouncing for the main gun cross-hairs. Any missed targets would have to catch up from behind as the convoy continued to drive through & capture CP's on the highway. The insurgents/ opfor could try to come up from behind but the turrets would be constantly swiveling. The rear tanks would be looking sideways & backwards. Gunners in separate tanks would have to learn how to cooperate in scanning the battlefield when driving in a convoy along the road.

And, while on the topic of ambushers & IED's, we have to consider the game's IED damage for a tank. Each ambusher gets 1 IED. If you concentrated several IED's (from several ambushers) you could destroy 1 tank at a time but that wouldn't stop the rest of the constantly moving convoy. The tank would respawn and there would also be plenty more tanks at the base. If you daisy-chained the IED's, then you could hit multipe tanks but not enough to destroy any idividual tank. So that wouldn't stop the convoy either. Ambushers would also have to set up the IED's on the side of the road & guard rails where the tanks would drive- which would be in a direct line of sight for the MG's on a straight path. Another anti-ambusher solution would be to have fast moving attack helicopters blasting away at possible hiding places like in Basrah v0.5... Technicals could shoot at flare-popping choppers but tanks would be shooting shells at technicals that are giving away their position with green tracers.

Balance between asymmetric forces in this instance would depend primarily on the layout of the map, e.g., spawn points, and the placement of asymmetric assets for a battle that is constantly on the move. It would be very difficult for both sides in this sort of arrangement. Such a map would present a unique set of challenges for each side.

YouTube - M113 Gavins THUNDER RUN! battle their way into Baghdad

YouTube - Larry Moe Curly Highway 8 april 7 2003

YouTube - Thunder Run Iraq

YouTube - A Tribute To Bravo Company 3-15 Infantry at Objective Curly.

YouTube - Baghdad's Highway 8

thread moved to correct location.

If it had to be moved, I'm glad it was done by somebody on the mapper team.
The intention for the thread, however, was as a suggestion for a later version of the PR Mod itself (and not so much as a mod of a mod.) But I trust your discretion if this is where such posts typically go. Most importantly, I'd like people with map-making talent to see it.

Thank you, [R-DEV] Nickbond592.

Good ideas, you can start mapping here:

link

Surprisingly, if you Google Earth "Iraq Highway 8" and zoom in, it looks just like a PR Mod map. As far as layout goes, there's little thinking with this one as the city planners already did that part. The US won this battle though almost lost it due to the ability to resupply. There are other ways that this map could go either way US/ Insurgent.

Google Earth filter settings:

Places:
(blank)

Layers:
Roads,
3D Buildings, Photorealistic, Gray
Terrain

PR map team is busy making there own map, if you have ideas start one for yourself and try to make them. The map team doesnt really take too many suggestions and then makes maps.

let them first finish sangin .

^ I endorse the above product or thing.

Janush Rambowski wrote:If it had to be moved, I'm glad it was done by somebody on the mapper team.
The intention for the thread, however, was as a suggestion for a later version of the PR Mod itself (and not so much as a mod of a mod.) But I trust your discretion if this is where such posts typically go. Most importantly, I'd like people with map-making talent to see it.

Thank you, [R-DEV] Nickbond592.

no problem, more resources and reference's for maps are always a good thing, who knows where the next maps in Pr will be based


currently, I'm working on Dragonfly ( the follow up to Fools road ) so am more interested in pictures of the Georgian/Russian hissy fit than anything else

[R-DEV]Nickbond592 wrote:no problem, more resources and reference's for maps are always a good thing, who knows where the next maps in Pr will be based


currently, I'm working on Dragonfly ( the follow up to Fools road ) so am more interested in pictures of the Georgian/Russian hissy fit than anything else

TEH WINK

like the idea of this map tough,to have a city to defend against 9 tanks might get interesting

I'm proposing that the US base would have rows of vehicles for a total of 36 tanks and 12 bradleys (for avg. 3:1 ratio), 16 humvees, and also a smaller number of other assorted vehicles such as supply trucks, ammo resupply trucks, and 2 or 3 attack choppers. (If it's ever considered, I'd like some Humvees to have mounted MK-19 automatic grenade launchers in the future.) As a note, in the real-life battle, there was something like 30 tanks. Also there could be kiowas for rapid transport of engineers from the base to wherever the armored column is along the map.


So, theoretically, the US could have a total of 16 Abrams tanks with 2-man crews rolling in a convoy up the highway alongside the city which would be some distance from the road (as much as 200-300 meters.) Personally, I would vary the spread with faster moving vehicles and different ammo such as Bradleys that have higher-rate-of-fire HE rounds. The armored vehicles wouldn't actually go into the smaller intricate side-streets of the city since the push would be up Highway 8 & around the bend to Baghdad Airport. Tanks that fully stopped for too long or approached the city would get nailed.


The vehicle spread, however, would be pretty much up to the US team: fast moving vehicles with light armor or slower moving vehicles with heavy armor. Bear in mind, that the faster moving vehicles would have to come closer to a stop, slow down, or become stationary for a longer amount of time in CP zones along the highway including strongpoints (typically highway overpasses) where insurgent resistance is the most concentrated.


The insurgents would have vehicles, too. But one of the major Insurgent countermeasures would be RPG's (shot from the city) because of open fields of fire over intermediate distances. BTW, Highway 8 was also known as "RPG alley." In the game, to entirely destroy a convoy of 16 tanks with RPG's alone would take 16*5 or 80 hits. And most of the RPG's would miss! With engineers servicing tanks, it could take more.

YouTube - Raw Combant Footage From Iraq

YouTube - US Army Troops react to Insurgent Ambush in Iraq

YouTube - M1 abrams tank after VBIED attack