Project Reality Forums

Hy my idea is that it would be nice if there Could be some Officer training in the training maps. Because, yea its cool that anyone can create a squad but a lot of people (like me) doesn't really know officer and commander tactics of course we can read tactics here at the forum but it would be nice if there would be some officially trained leaders in PR. These people can join a training course(maybe here at the forums) where they can lean game tactics, advanced leadership in conception(read tactics and do exams) and in field-work(at training maps in PR) after that they can be an officially trained PR officers (they would get a new official pr rank so we can separate them form the other players) with grate skills and lot of knowledge...It would be a PR West Point. :d rillserg

Of course this is just a basic idea it Could use a little more work.
...So what do you guys think?

Hopefully 0.8 SP will be out reasonably soon, I think that is a better training medium for SLs

Yup, hopefully it'll get to/will be quality enough to be tacked onto the next PR patch/release like the training mod was.

You really cant be trained to be a good Commander or Squad Leader, in most firefights it all common sense of how to flank and out gun your opponent. If you can do you that you should win any firefight. I have been outgunned 6 vs 15+ and still won because I used common sense. The balance of attacking and defense is important. So what i'm saying is that you cant really train a officer easily for PR.

It is better to learn on the field by been a grunt, then SL, then commander working yourself up. But there are certain thing it wouldn't hurt to be familiar with before been thrown into the game, to be honest a full on training section for grunts would be good ala Half-Life & most in depth FPSs.

Great idea ...edit: Lawer01

Thought about this many times my self and actually attempted to create such a program back in 2006/2007, in some threads on this main site, and then after that on PELA in 2007.

In the end I only completed two CO training sessions, who were long due to non-structured evaluations were the CO player who tried out the training reacted negative to that fact. Basically i made a mistrake not organising the training useful enough, thus i did learn what I should not do.

One main thing I learned was that training a CO player was not completely the same as training a SL player.

Anyway, suggestion:


The Project Reality Commander Training Program

1. We organise a dedicated server in the community using the already existing PR event dynamic as player base. The CO server is labelled "Doing My Part", a title related to SLs and COs and Private players doing what the game construction essentially has been designed for; Command, Control and Communication.


2. We deploy a thread where CO-Candidates can apply following a specific set of criterias that has to be followed and signed using a thread-creed for such.



Example on the CO-Candidate criterias

• I will make 3 plans for 3 different maps and I will make use of the dedicated coaches to get feedback on my plan.
• I will accept that all allocated players can play under my command. This include new PR players as well.
• I will make sure that i attend to battles when those have been organised by the evenht team.

3. We deploy a thread where CO-Coaches can apply following a specific set of criterias that has to be followed and signed using a thread-creed for such.



Example on the CO-Coaches criterias

• I will make sure I do not force my own CO style on the Candidate but make sure to only provide feedback and advice within the Candidates own style. Thus the logics of the candidate has to be respected.
• I will accept that x of all allocated CO-candidates can be allocated me but with the maximum of 3 and minimum of 1.
• I will make sure that I provide feedback in written form to the CO-candidate.

4. We make sure the CO-candidates and the CO-Coaches use a polite tone when in contact with each other. If the tone is broken one or both will be thrown out of the training program. We make sure they do that by only using PMs or specific threads as communicational tool.


5. Each CO-candidate has x (maybe 3) available time to receive feed-back within a specified time-period. One or two fortnights maybe?


6. We launch a monthly Saturday event where the dedicated CO server is filled up with PR players (SLs included) and then execute the rounds using the option of conduction team speak evaluations after wise. The evaluations are open to the individual teams and has a evaluation-person allocated who will terminate the access at some point so the evaluations dosent drag out. (cause that they can!)



Thoughts, Criticism, Ideas is of course very welcome?

Hey Michael if you want to try a course like this again someday I would love to help out! I think I got some decent squad leader tactics in my head so I think I would be able to help out.

Havent got a lot of time to go in to your post (I do have some suggestions) but I will on a later moment

Copy

Thx

Mike

I think you mentioned a dedicated server somewhere. If not we might be able to host it on one of the servers from T&T. Since thats my home and all

Lawer

Its not really possible to teach you how to be a commander or SL. Unless you want to learn how to place rallies, and accept requests, that sort of thing.

Tactics, you learn as a squad mate.

Join a squad, see what the SL is telling you to do. Learn from that.

Then after you become a good squad leader, you can try being a commander.

SL tactics dont differ from commander tactics. Its just more multitasking.

Thats it. Really...

Just dont be annoying, or ur squad mates will leave, lol.

ralfidude wrote:Lawer

Its not really possible to teach you how to be a commander or SL. Unless you want to learn how to place rallies, and accept requests, that sort of thing. .

What is that opinion based on?

You see, I know it can be done.

My opinion is based on experience with the very same.

Well, if he doesnt learn to be a good SL from being a squad with a good SL, then teaching him by just telling him what to do as an SL will be fake. It wont feel natural. He will get the gist for it, but the BEST way to learn that is to just learn from being in a squad.

I agree. And thats why you see this in the real military as well. First they get a classroom example and then they go out in the field for excersises and real life training!

cyberzomby wrote:I agree. And thats why you see this in the real military as well. First they get a classroom example and then they go out in the field for excersises and real life training!

haha BNOC 18 week course...not looking forward to it

Personally i don't have any problem with leading a squad or commanding a team. I just think I'm playing a strategic game with voice like End War. My main problem was that there are SL's and CO's who are totally incompetent and because of that the whole team suck and we lose important tickets and assets.

Example: 4th time i was playing as a CO at...i think it was Ramiel. So i had grate squads a HUMVE squad, a sniper squad, 1 well oiled inf squad,( I don't remember the name of the SL but he/she/it did really nice work) and 1 really bad inf squad, 1 striker squad and the Apache squad. Main problem was that nobody reported anything except the HUMVE and the better inf squad. Thees to squads were active and told me about enemy movements and FB's (or as we call it on insmod craphouse.) But the other squads war almost silent all the time and they didn't followed orders.

The main goal of this training would be to train people who are really qualified for leading a squad or commanding a team. They would represent that if they are around, teamwork and fun will be provided in that round.

how the feawelbauchwonwuuhwaah r u gonna learn squadleading whitout squadmembers!? squadleadins something you can only learn by going to a server and make a squad.

IMO the best way to do something like this is with a "master and apprentice". The master squad leads at first with the apprentice in his squad explaining what he is doing to the apprentice in a vent ts or something to that sort. Then when the master feels the apprentice is ready he lets the apprentice lead the squad while he works in it and watches and then after the round he gives him suggestions and tells him some things he did right and did wrong.

I think the best way to initiate a system like this would be if one or two extremely experienced PR players (possibly R-Cons or R-Devs) start a program where they pick out people who they know are good squad leaders or accept applications to teach in the program and then evaluate to make sure the people are ready for it. From there they go public with the program and allow trainees to apply for the course. When the people apply they get paired up with one of the masters, and the apprentice and the master work together to find a time they can both be on and go to a pub to make a squad and do exactly what I talked about above.

Why would this work? A few reasons.

1. Other than pairing up the people together there is little or no preparation required.
2. The only physical resource required for the entire program is a single vent or TS where the Master and Apprentice pairs could have a private place to discuss what happens.
3. There is no classroom type work required where a person might get bored or turned off from it.
4. The tips and advice are very personalized to the apprentice.
5. It is easy to find a time for the two people to work together because its only two of them.
6. The Apprentice gets hands on experience.
7. The Apprentice will learn to work with random people on a pub server under supervision as these are the kinds of people he would have to work with after graduation.

Ideally the people who start the program could come up with a list of topics that the master should make sure he covers at some point with the apprentice during rounds to make sure the apprentice is prepared for everything they might come across in a real game. When the master feels that the person is ready to graduate from the program he will send the request up to the masters of the program and they will evaluate the person to be sure they are ready.
Eventually if a program like this proves successful it could even be adopted as an official program for PR where certified graduates could be given some sort of in game symbol which indicates that they are commissioned "PR Officers" so that when noobies or the likes join a server they can see people who they know will be competent leaders. One of the nice things about a program like this over the long term is eventually the people who are graduates from the program could come back and serve as teachers. I feel that a program like this could help make the random chaos that usually ensues on a pub server into a mildly organized chaos where commanders could know who they can depend on and squad leaders could know which other squad leaders they could communicate with and work together with. It could really take this game which is already awesome and make it incredible. Tell me what you think guys .

~Sniperdog

Well, if the Commander Tactics forum was more active, you could discuss tactics in there for commanding, then try it in the feild.

For squad leader, then being a squadmate and then a squad leader, or reading through the infantry tactics forum etc.

I think what Micheal has proposed is a great idea. I also agree on all parts of the people saying a good SL/CO is learned through the ranks of grunt, SL, CO. Most good squad leaders will tell you what kit, what stack position and what his ROE's are, like do not engage unless engaged- FIRE AT WILL!! kind of stuff. To me that is a direct indicator that he has been through this before. Someone mentioned joining a server and learing from the SL of the squad you join. Most of the time this is a good idea and if you jump around you will find the guy I described above. Sometimes you will run into the less inept who could spend some time in a server like Micheal describes and hopefully T&T puts up.
All in all I would suggest having two or even three different types of trainning. Any of you who have played America's Army and actually completed trainning would know what this is like. For PR the scenario you would be learning the grunt stuff: how to communicate, give coords, be a medic, squad movements and lasing targets - beginner. Then the more advanced stuff like Leading a squad, tactics and stuff like that. All placed at a shooting range. I don't remember the map name but there is one already set up for it, just needs to be convrted to trainning. - The reason I make the reference to AA is because it taught you how to fire the weapon, go prone, all of the stuff you basically have to figure out on your own or ask if you didn't read the manual. And even the manual doesn't cover everything.
I think the roaming around approach might be good also. If the map is set up in stations to learn things, people will have a more "discovering" attitude towards it. I agree with ya though Micheal that structure would need to be present so intrest is not lost on lesson 3.