Project Reality Forums

From what I understand you guys have a deviation system on the guns zeroing because the game is hard coded to keep the sight centered as soon as you sight in. So the sight looks steady and centered but the deviation system has to go through its progression before it actually is. This makes it hard when you bring up the sights and it looks centered, you take a shot but the deviation has not zeroed the gun yet. It looks like you had an accurate shot, but the bullet misses.

My suggestion to let the player know when the deviation is zeroed and they would have their most accurate shot. When you have your sights up, and you jump, or go from prone to standing, an animation of your gun moves around becoming uncentered. Is there a way to play this animation when the deviation starts and stop it when the deviation zeros, so during the deviation the gun is moving around, and when the deviation stops the gun becomes centered? If this cannot be done because of the code, could you show an icon, or play a sound when the deviation is done?

The last 2 suggestions are not realistic, but if we were really shooting the gun we would know when we have the most accurate shot, so the sound or icon would represent this. Come to think of it you do this already on the heavy AT, you have a circle cross hair close in from the sides until the gun is centered, if you do this on the heavy AT you could do something similar with the rifles. I’m not saying I want to see that half circle close all game long on all the weapons, but a small Icon letting us know the gun is steady and centered would do the trick.

Americas Army did an accuracy meter red-yellow-green. Green(prone, unsuppressed, setup) giving you the most accurate shot, yellow(nealing/standing, unsuppressed, setup) shooting close to accurate, and red(suppressed, not setup) was inaccurate shooting. I would not like to see this accuracy meter in Project Reality, too much focusing on the meter adjusting stance and position for better shots, it’s just a rough example of what could be done. I think a simple icon of a soldier aiming a gun that appears on the bottom left when the deviation is done, or an icon showing you the deviation is going through progression then disappears when deviation is done, that would be fine nothing too big to draw the attention away from the shooting.

I like the idea alot. We already have a breathing sound (which is 8 seconds long) that you activate with the same button you pick up the rifle with. But adding that the sights move until you're accurate would make it a bit easier. The breathing sound is just like an 8 second long timer, it doesn't affect the shooting directly or your sights. It just sound like breathing to make it cool. But if the sights would move a little whenever your shot gets inaccurate because of your mouse movement it'd be easier. As it is now I'm always guessing when I shoot, hoping that I will hit. I can never be sure that the bullet will go straight.

Shouldn't be to hard to code would it? I know nothing about coding it but how hard could it be?

Very. The animation triggers we have to work with don't allow for such flexibility.. We have tried, however in short doing it by animations will yield unreliable results.

and just firing of a few quick surpression shots will be harder if your gun is still "swaying" around from sighting in.

I'm trying to produce a proof of concept for something similar to this. I'm really bad in the editor, which is itself fiendishly complicated to learn for BF2 purposes. To be honest, it's hard to know how well it will work, but there is a surprisingly large amount you can animate that I thought was hardcoded before I started. The triggers are very shoddy from what I can tell, but there is an incredible amount you can do in the animator itself.

I always wondered whether or not it would be possible to have a toned down version of the sway you get when you walk and are looking down the sights or scope. (But have this all the time when you are sighted in to represent not being able to hold the gun perfectly steady) Then you wont need deviation?

I always wondered whether or not it would be possible to have a toned down version of the sway you get when you walk and are looking down the sights or scope. (But have this all the time when you are sighted in to represent not being able to hold the gun perfectly steady) Then you wont need deviation?

Just because the animation is moving the gun around does not mean the bullet will shoot where the sight is. I’m not 100% but I think the reason they created the deviation is because when the sights come up in game they are automatically centered no matter where the sight is the gun is centered, Project Reality Devs wanted to make firefights last longer than 1 second, the time it takes to bring your sight up, so they added deviation. So you would still need deviation with an animation.

Ok so it looks like animation is out, or too hard to work with the triggers, what do you guys think about the icon, or the sound idea?

If this cannot be done because of the code, could you show an icon, or play a sound when the deviation is done?

The last 2 suggestions are not realistic, but if we were really shooting the gun we would know when we have the most accurate shot, so the sound or icon would represent this. Come to think of it you do this already on the heavy AT, you have a circle cross hair close in from the sides until the gun is centered, if you do this on the heavy AT you could do something similar with the rifles. I’m not saying I want to see that half circle close all game long on all the weapons, but a small Icon letting us know the gun is steady and centered would do the trick.

Animation betwixt deviation is a marriage made in hell. Honest, even if you CAN get the animations to trigger--What's going to make the sight and bullet destination follow the same path? You absolutely cannot; deviation determined on-shot, and not on a 'path'. There is no 'magical revolving line' of deviation, it is a random calculation. Animation cannot equal or match random number in a game of 'on-the-fly anims'; BF2 does not have this ability at all, to our dismay.


Now, on the topic of indicators being the information for 'lowest deviation from point'... What do you propose be put on the screen? An unrealistic and distracting pair of 'magic crosshairs' that align to your crosshair? What kind of sound could you possibly use for 'not moving anymore'? The main reason I see the H-AT having crosshairs is because of the fact that it can potentially kill you and all of your squad if misfired, and that IRL the rocket is fired from a fully stationary position (adding to this, handheld rocket launchers are often soft-launch firing stations. this means that the rocket is jettisoned from the tube, using a small blast. I assume that moving the rocket tube while the missle is leaving the tube could cause a hairy misfire and possibly leave you hurting. Often, rocket launchers are used in a sitting position.)

Come up with some examples, and then you'll see how well it could be integrated.

Animations are an alternative to deviation. If the user of a weapon is unable to use his sights to determine the middle of the screen, then he is unable to fire accurately irrespective of how much deviation the weapon has. The function of sights in real life is to determine where the weapon is pointing. In PR, the function of the sights is to determine where you want to shoot. That's unrealistic at the most basic level - they don't even fulfill the same purpose as they do in real life. In the last generation of video games, there was HUD device that fulfilled exactly the same purpose as PR's sights - crosshairs (dynamic or otherwise). I don't care how "realistic" you think they look, they do the job a lot better than our sights do, and have no pretenses about what they are. Deviation is a generations ago solution in an otherwise next generation game.

It's pretty well known these days that you can't code weapons sway etc into the BF2 engine with EULA restrictions. That doesn't mean you can't find an alternative to Deviation.

What I'm trying might not work at all, but work needs to be done.

Animation betwixt deviation is a marriage made in hell. Honest, even if you CAN get the animations to trigger--What's going to make the sight and bullet destination follow the same path? You absolutely cannot; deviation determined on-shot, and not on a 'path'. There is no 'magical revolving line' of deviation, it is a random calculation. Animation cannot equal or match random number in a game of 'on-the-fly anims'; BF2 does not have this ability at all, to our dismay.


Now, on the topic of indicators being the information for 'lowest deviation from point'... What do you propose be put on the screen? An unrealistic and distracting pair of 'magic crosshairs' that align to your crosshair? What kind of sound could you possibly use for 'not moving anymore'? The main reason I see the H-AT having crosshairs is because of the fact that it can potentially kill you and all of your squad if misfired, and that IRL the rocket is fired from a fully stationary position (adding to this, handheld rocket launchers are often soft-launch firing stations. this means that the rocket is jettisoned from the tube, using a small blast. I assume that moving the rocket tube while the missle is leaving the tube could cause a hairy misfire and possibly leave you hurting. Often, rocket launchers are used in a sitting position.)

Come up with some examples, and then you'll see how well it could be integrated.

First if the animation worked, which from what I hear it would not, I think the best way would make it look as if the gun is shaking, at no time did I want you to try to aim the shaking sight and hit where the sight is, I know the deviation is random, I just wanted a animation to represent that the gun is not centered yet. Also I agree with you I dont want to see the closing circle crosshair on the AT on all the weapons, I think that is a bad idea and would get old. My idea now that I have thought about it a little more is a small icon of a "target" on the bottom left will show up when the deviation is progressing. So when you bring up your sights and the deviation starts a small "target" icon shows up on the bottom left hand corner, and when the deviation ends the target goes away. Yes everytime you move and stop the icon will show up again, but as long as it is on to the bottom left, and it could be transparent it would not take your eyes off the action.

I still think rifles should have an accuracy meter similar to the one the HAT has only not at the centre of the screen.

"I still think rifles should have an accuracy meter similar to the one the HAT has only not at the centre of the screen."


agree

martov wrote:"I still think rifles should have an accuracy meter similar to the one the HAT has only not at the centre of the screen."


agree

*radio* ... and now recent news from the project reality front: the number of players falling asleep while waiting for the accuracy meter to reach its minimum is growing at an alerting rate .... */radio*

martov wrote:"I still think rifles should have an accuracy meter similar to the one the HAT has only not at the centre of the screen."


agree

How is that realistic? if anything the HAT one should be removed is just screws with your aim...

Personally i think the whole waiting deal is a bit wierd especially when you adjust your aim by a millimeter and then have to wait 3 days until youre stable again, i mean small adjustments to aim should have no effect on the deviation IMO only big adjustments or position adjustments should.

Zeppelin35 wrote:I still think rifles should have an accuracy meter similar to the one the HAT has only not at the centre of the screen.

If the deviation wants to be this ridicules, it should have a ridicules deviation bar. I agree with this.

Also with the other guy who's talking about deviation due to small movements, it should deviate to only large movements, but if they can't due that, it should at least recover accuracy very quickly so you get full aim after making minor tweaks. It really should get really accurate as soon as you get your sights up, that takes 1 to 2 seconds itself which is a bit of an exaggeration already, but once your sights are up to your eyes, it shouldn't get more accurate just because you wait 6 seconds more, once you zeroed in, you're zeroed in, you can't zero in more than that. Zeroing in only takes a second, unless you're engaging someone with a sniper rifle from a quarter mile away.

markonymous wrote:i mean small adjustments to aim should have no effect on the deviation IMO only big adjustments or position adjustments should.

0.85

the only reason i agree with a rough deviation bar to tell how accurate you'd be compared to other moments in time because of

A: You can feel when you're remotely steady or not, compared to a video game

B: You could probably comphensate better in real life

C: Cheeeeese is tasty

If deviation is ever tied to an animation (or vice-versa), may I suggest all of our characters be modeled after Barney Fife (Don Knotts) in order to give us a sense of realism in our inability to accurately fire?