Project Reality Forums

I have recently been getting into flight simming and that means I now own a very good joystick. So I figure using my x-52 will be great for flying transport choppers and hovering.

Well the throttle works fine but the stick is just totally non responsive. Its like someone's damaged the control cables in the aircraft! I switch over at the exact same moment and use the mouse and its fine.

Is there anyway to make the joystick actually usable? I know I've read of some people here using this same joystick. Is my install borked? Are there hidden settings in the config?

Any help would be great. I have always wanted to be a great transport pilot. I dream of doing hot evacs with the Huey. I can use the mouse but it doesn't centre as easily as a joystick.

Cheers

couldn't you go in to options - controls - and mess with the yaw, sensitivity etc?

I use the same, and I haven´t installed the profile software, I haven´t messed with the sensitivity or anything and it seems to be perfectly fine. Maybe check your sensitivity settings in the aircraft control setting tabs?

I plugged mine in and lived with it lol

I have messed with the yaw and pitch settings and the sensitivity. It only seems to affect the mouse. I put everything at 10 so that the slightest mouse twitch yanks the helicopter to one side and the stick still feels like its stuck in the mud.

Maybe its a driver thing or something. I think I'll try a few random things. I'll try unlugging the stick and plugging it back in while BF2 is running. I've read about a few people needing to recalibrate their joysticks from now and then when they're using IL-2. Don't know what that means really but they say its necessary.

It annoys me that it seems nobody has had an issue like this.

I'll give it my best go and maybe I'll help someone else with the info.

Cheers guys

Logitech 3D Pro here. Good stick.

I plugged it in and it played pretty much instantly and haven't ever had a problem with it.

And your right, the yaw & pitch sensitivity have nothing to do with the joystick.

Sorry mate, I can't help here.

Having done research on it it seems that the culprit is nothing in particular. It just seems that BF2 is one truly dreadful game when it comes to joystick support. Lots of misc. complaints on the internet about trouble getting the stick to recognize axes or that they're inverted. Apparently some people adapt strict calibration techniques they use everytime they start up BF2 so that the game doesn't screw anything up. Some people who have Saitek sticks have said that uninstalling the drivers and reinstalling without the profile software makes it better. Not really an option for me since I use the profiler for IL-2 extensively.

Seems as though some people luck out and have no troubles and some people do.

To describe my experience; whenever I throw the stick one way or another its like theres a delay like I'm really not controlling the stick but pulling a string attached to the stick. So whenever I go to push back I have to fight the inertia thats pulling the stick in the direction I just pulled it the moment before. It also seems that it requires exponentially more exertion against the force the more harder pulled it to begin with. So a hard yank back to decelerate requires such strong forward force to keep the chopper from flying backwards that I overcompensate and send it careening forward into the ground.

I want to ask people a few questions. When I centre the joystick the virtual stick in the helicopter isn't centred, so if I want to actually centre the stick I have to pull opposite force and then centre it, very tricky. Is this normal?

When I apply negative thrust on the rotors, meaning downward thrust equivalent to default 'S' key, is it normal to lose almost all control over the chopper's movement? If I pull the nose up and then apply some negative thrust to keep from going backwards I can't at the same time correct the pitch angle. Is it normal to not be able to control the chopper when pressing S or applying negative thrust?

This whole experience seems to reinforce how stupid a game engine BF2 uses. How the developers either were very sloppy in some ways or the publisher forced it out the door with lots unfinished.

I think what your hitting is the dismal realism of the Digital Illusions engine. It does not handle input on choppers with any semblance of realism, thus its very counter intuitive to use a joystick. They can work fine, if you take the time to learn how its done, but in my experience those of us who fly choppers in other sims should stick with the mouse in this game.

Thats what I thought. However I have noticed that even with a mouse and endless hours of tweaking the sensitivity and the Yaw factors (what an esoteric thing to call it, wtf does 'yaw factor' mean anyway?) it still suffers from stick in the mud syndrome. I can't flare a Huey without climbing really high or flying backwards because even with the mouse you seem to lose return on your movements the more there is some kind of inertia in play.

So really keyboard control seems to be the only really truly 100% efficient way to control a chopper but its also not perfect for finer controls. Luckily I've just thought of a way to do it both. I've already ditched the stick but I'm using the Throttle half of my X-52 to great effect in combination with my mouse. I'm going to try using the 4 way Hat located on the throttle (ingenious this X-52, the throttle is way cooler than the stick) for keyboard style control which I can easily hit whenever I feel I'm out of control or need a sharp input for instance when my flare isn't coming under control enough.

I'll let you know how it goes. If this works I'll have developed a frankenstein approach to piloting helos; keyboard, mouse, and joystick.

I would recommend sticking to a keyboard and mouse. Apparently, this is how the choppers were meant to be flown in BF2 (I've heard that 1.0 didn't even have joystick support), and you can actually get a lot of precision and responsiveness out of a chopper this way if you know what you're doing. In fact, in PR, I often end up overdoing things because I push the mouse back a bit and the chopper starts to tip over. Thing is, BF2 (and PR by extension) is not a flight sim. Even with all the modifications made by the PR team, you are still in an arcade engine.

Well my tests proved that I can work out a system to operate the chopper with three different types of input.

Basically I've found that a variable throttle input is indispensable. It allows me to come to a hover much more easily and to maintain it indefinitely if I manage the mouse properly. The mouse I've found my own settings for keeping ideal control over the Huey at least. Not found one for other kinds of chopper and I think the Little Bird might need a special one.

I use the 4 way hat to correct sharply to basically act like a hard yank on the stick. Maximum input basically. Lets me come level after a flare a bit more easily and also lets me make emergency turns or corrections to attitude much better. Before I'd have to push the mouse up and lift it back down cause I'd run out of room on my mouse pad.

Ugh, so painful this helo stuff. I dont' even want to get into testing the jets.

Okay, since I'm a Flight sim fan, I'll explain it to you. Yaw is an Aeronautical term. Basically, Yaw is left and right, with the rudder, pitch is the nose going up and down, and back is the wings tipping in a turn.

I also can't control a helicopters angle when using negative thrust, unless I'm flying upside down.

Oh, and the sensitivty is for both the mouse and the joystick.

PFunk,
I hope you haven't completely given up on the x52 yoke. I use the full system (stick and throttle) in PR and have had a great experience so far. To top off a few of your questions:

1. The "pitch factor" option is a setting for the mouse. If your mouse is old and has only 600 dpi. you would set your pitch factor up to a higher value. With a mouse that is 1000 dpi or higher(gaming mouse), you might need to set the pitch factor lower because your mouse is VERY sensative and the option to lower the sensativity is great. For some it is the diffence of having to reset the mouse on the pad or not, and we all know resetting the mouse in an attack dive will result in a nose plant on the ground.

2. In my testing days- I found that the mouse settings, pitch/yaw/sensativity had absolutly no effect on my joystick. Infact with the x52 yoke- the sensativity is set by the manufacturer and can't be changed with any simple "options" setting ingame or with the SST software.

3. The negative trust thing, as I am sure you have found, if you go full negative throttle- the aircraft basically falls like a rock with no steering... so lets say you set the throttle to negative 25% you will have a slow decrease in altitude but still maintain control over the aircraft correct? Even at negative 50% thorttle you will fall fast but still be able to control your movements... Full negative thorttle is much like full positive throttle- hard to control.

4. Calibrating the system:
At first I had some trouble setting buttons in-game. Some of the extra buttons on the yoke were showing the same button assignment for the throttle buttons. So BF2 was saying "Duplicate setting found..." I had to use the SST software to set each button on the stick and throttle individually. Lets say the thumb button "C" on the stick is what I set my flares to... in the game I left "X" as the button to deploy flares, but in the SST software the thumb button "C" had to be set to the key "X", save/load profile and good to go.

5. The only in-game settings that need to be set are pitch fwd, roll right, steer right and throttle. If you are setting pitch fwd and push the stick forward all the way, it should set both fwd and back to the same axis. Same with roll, twist and throttle. There is the problem some people have with the reversing. They try to set throttle up and throttle down when you only need to set one of them for the settings to see the axis. If BF2 doesnt see the axis after trying to push the stick forward for fwd. try setting pitch back and pulling the stick back. One or the other- not both - untill it is set.

I had to play with it for days before I figured out ways to make it work. I had the same problem you described earlier in the post- last year- that you were having the "mud stick". When I first started using the stick I was under/over correcting everything. If I was tipping forward a little, I would pull all the way back on the stick, and it would damn near flip me over- or it would flip me over and "FAIL" would appear across team chat... So I started trying to be really soft on my adjustments only to find they were having very very little effect.

It turns out to be more about your throttle position than anything. At hover, my throttle reading on screen says 23% and the slightest touch on the stick will send me in whatever direction- so softness is the key. In an attack dive, the throttle cant be full if you expect to recover from the dive. If I am diving in and at full throttle, the stick has very little pitch effect other than down(forwad) >.> Pulling back on the stick only keeps me in the dive- BUT as soon as I drop the throttle to less than +75%, the stick becomes responsive and the dive can be saved.

I have helped a few people set up their joysticks and pratice in trainning servers. The first tips I give are: Take it slow at first, slow will become smooth and smooth will become fast. Everything you do in an aircraft is planned before you do it. 2 seconds before you actually start turning, you should be thinking about recovering from the turn and making the adjustment. It really has to do with throttle, not joystick adjustment. The delay is actually realistic. Every aircraft, especially helichopters have some delay- That is why you plan ahead...if you are pitching forward and yank the stick all the way back, you should ready for the extreme "pitch back" movement. If you were pitching forward and only pulled the stick back a little untill you actually get some of the adjustment to happen, you will become much more smooth. Make adjustments 2 seconds beofer you think you will need them... I guess that is hard top explain.

At neutral throttle the heli is very manueverable but has no speed. If you tip the nose a little forward- the heli will gain speed without throttle interaction. You can try this... go up to 300 alt in a heli and hover. once in a stable hover LEAVE the throttle in its position and assume an attack dive angle. The speed on screen will increase but your throttle position will remain the same. Doing this will increase your chances of recovery from the dive angle because the stick will still be responsive at "hover" position. When you pull the yoke back the pitch will change and you will assume a hover again with some practice. After you tried that a few times, try getting to the hover and assuming the attack dive BUT decrease the throttle to about negative 25%... the effect is basically a stall. Your nose will be pointed on target and your speed will remain the same for a few moments untill falling speed and attack angle catch up with one another.

As I am sure you have read, some x52 owners have problems with the yoke re-calibrating while they are flying. I have had the same issue since I have owned this stick. The simple solution is to unplug/replug the stick in. Some people recommend using a different USB port when you do this. The same port works fine for me and resets it back to normal. But it sucks *** when it happens and you are trying to fly because you either have to fight it to a hover and quickly do the plug thing, or land. I also have the LED flicker problem where my stick lights up like the 4th of July. I have owned the stick long enough to be outside the warranty so I have taken it upon myself to "fix" the problem. I opend the yoke and noticed some of the wires were damaged. Atleast two wires were smooshed flat and likely to be the cause of the short in the light. I cut the wire thinking I didnt need lights anyways, only to find it disbled the X axis . So I took apart another old gizmo and raped some wires from it- rewired some of the damaged links and have not had a problem with the stick since.

Best thing you can do is practice with it. Give it some time and you will be as good if not better with the stick than the mouse/keyboard. I say it takes about 1-2 weeks of constant practice to get it. And I am always willing to give some lessons! Remember- slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Every action must be planned and taking place 2 seconds before you do it. (Delay)