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Well i didnt know it was possible to "dig down" in a map until this release with the fox hole that goes somewhat into the ground. You could use a similar system to building the wire fence, basically it would be about 10-20 yrds (your decision) and instead of having to deal with many foxholes how bout a trench that would be deep enough that you could crouch and not be seen and not so deep so when your standing your rifle actually goes over the edge so you can fire, and to make it more defensive you could put sand bags in front so getting naded would actually be some what difficult, it can be destroyed after a very very very long time because the only way in RL to take out a trench is to....cave the sides in or maybe about 4-5 tank shells would do it or a big bomb maybe a JDAM or mortars, anyway i thought this was a good idea because you wouldnt have to jump in it and waste stamina like you do with foxholes and it can hold many people instead of having to build 5 foxholes you could build 1 trench. Any thoughts?

Well that would be great.Ofcourse if this is possible.

Not possible with the bf2 engine, thats wye they made foxholes as an alternative.

Unless what I'm saying is a lie like arjans sig says
YOu cannot manipulate the terrain after packing with the BF2 Engine, so it would have to be an above ground stucture, which is what the foxholes represent like arjan said

Altering the terrain is not possible in-game. So digging into the "earth" can't be done, but the devs have worked around the engine with the foxhole. It's raised dirt and there's a curved bottom, making the foxhole a little more than a 360 sandbag.

So this trench idea is possible, but would it look realistic? Since we're stuck with hard unmoldable earth in a real game, this tall trench concept may look more like a wall. At least that's what I'm imagining.

I think i'm yet to see someone build a Foxhole...

the foxholes still do go into the "earth" a little bit if u see them, there not completely above ground, they barely go into the ground but they still do, and also i didnt really want to make it sound like a wall being built, what i mean is there would be just a trench (like normal) and then sand bags infront of it that you would still be able to look over which will actually decrease the amount you have to per-say dig. And if it completely not possible to have it built down into the ground at all, howbout making it so that on both sides of the trench would basically be like dirt piled in front and in back on an angle going down and on both ends have entrances, this would be an above ground asset that would still defeat the purpose of building many foxholes.

They don't go in to the ground face, they are more like a pillbox, they don't go below the unbuilt foundation.

The only way to go deeper in to the terrain in BF2 is to do it when the map is being made, after that the terrain levels are set forever.

and ur trench would just be like a longitudinal foxhole, perhaps interesting, but I don't think it would give any gameplay dynamic.

oh i guess its like a mirage then...it looks like it goes into the "ground" like a foot somtimes but even the one that would be raised i think would be better than a foxhole because u wouldnt have to jump in it and it can hold many more people and all you would have to do is build one instead of many foxholes, the raised one again is simply two dirt walls with the dirt angled down and then two enterences on the sides, i mean foxholes are great to get me wrong its just when u have to jump out and then run a decent distance your sprint goes very quickly because of the jump

As the builder I'll let you know, its a trick with the fox holes as they cannot...and will never be able to go in the ground. The engine doesnt work that way.

Not possible ...

However I think it would be good to see some sort of sandbag wall or like Rudd said, longitudinal foxhole. The current foxhole is an improvement for sure, but missed the «area fortification and denial» I would expect from dug emplacements + sandbags.

IMHO, the foxhole should be an HMG position with no HMG and there should be a «Trench line» asset resembling a trench the same size of the actual Wire+tank-traps added. Current foxholes aren't really used at all, i'm sure it would be different if it was like this.

why not just make the sides of the foxholes open or have a lower angle so you can just slip out? that and with the trench can be done the same way just make it longer and have the 2 ends open

Tannhauser wrote: IMHO, the foxhole should be an HMG position with no HMG

They had that during the beta. I think it was called a pillbox. They removed it by the second to last build release candidate and the foxhole took it's place.

Tannhauser wrote: and there should be a «Trench line» asset resembling a trench the same size of the actual Wire+tank-traps added. Current foxholes aren't really used at all, i'm sure it would be different if it was like this.

You know, since it's wider, it would make a more handy potion for certain locations; housing more soldiers and the wire would make it a tad harder to overrun. I wouldn't think the tanktraps would be as good for it, though.

M.

Expendable Grunt wrote:I wouldn't think the tanktraps would be as good for it, though.

If i said tank traps i didnt mean it, what i meant is it could simply be destroyed or caved in by a few tank rounds or alot of apc rounds, although in a way i guess it would be a tank trap if you didnt notice and simply got the tank stuck in the trench haha.

To whoever said, why not simply add openings to the foxhole the only reason i dont like that is because even if your lying down and trying to take cover you will always be exposed from some point of view.

Well anyway any thoughts on the above ground trench instead of foxholes, dont get me wrong foxholes are great i love the addition, i just think it should be improved with time. Basically how this would work is the same way as a wired fence asset it would be long and would put sandbags or just sand infront and back that is high enough to where you cant be seen while crouching and low enough so you can shoot out of it while standing up with an entrance on ends.

If this trench idea fails i had an even simpler idea, instead of putting sand bags on the outside of the foxholes is there a way to make it so its just slanted sand/dirt/land (whatever u want to call it) so you can run up it to get in at least without jumping....still doesnt resolve this issue about jumping out but it would still be an improvement.

To add some input on the idea:

A good trench tend to do some amount of zig-zag to give cover from the sides, looking something like this:

-^- (very simplified

Now if there would be trenches in-game you could combine two together in different angles for more complex layout. If you leave the end open you could make entry points by bending the angles they meet or solid continuing trenches.

Trenches would be nice, But cant we just build a map with sinking parts in the ground?

Trenches would be nice, But cant we just build a map with sinking parts in the ground?

Look back in the thread, you cant change the levels terrain. And you dont have a choice too, when you make a map, all the terrain is a thin piece of cover and some paint, under it is just dead space till the mapper set water plane.

if the trench is too long, it might look pretty silly if the ground isn't perfectly flat, as the trench will have to be the height of the highest piece of terrain its in contact with.

also, building a trench on top of a building might look a tiny bit wierd also

So would building a foxhole or stringing out some razor wire or putting down a HMG though.

I agree there needs to be more of a line formation kinda deployable though.

wtf??? u cant build anything under ground!? r u nuts!?!?!?. and if thats not what u did mean the foxhole is just as good...