Project Reality Forums

When you see videos of roadside bombs in iraq, it always seem (to me at least) that the guy working the detonator isn't armed. Rather he uses the coalitions ROE to his advantage. Carrying nothing that can identify him as an insurgent. Until he pulls out his cell-phone/detonator and hits the button.

So i propose that we either create a new class, or replace the ambusher class with basically a collaborator, with an IED. I have heard that the medic bag feature (where they are fair game when using medical equipment) doesn't work right now, but when that gets fixed, we could use the same system for this class. Making it so if you pull out your IED or mine, you are vulnerable for a couple minutes. This would simulate the coalition observing the insurgent planting his explosive.


The kit would be something like...
-Stones
-Unarmed
-IED/Cell
-Landmine
-Field Dressing x 4
-Binoculars
-Rope

This change would put more cives out on the field. And the ambushers could focus on their IED without having to worry about getting into gun fights, which usually result in dying and having to re-spawn and replace the IED. Of course the other insurgents will have to pick up the slack since the ambusher won't be defending the caches to the same degree they were before.

What do you guys think?

The ambusher should just be made to look like the civilian, he is an ambusher and right now they look like an insurgent not someone who is ambushing. The ambush should have a pistol and 2 ieds, rocks etc.

pistols are common in Iraq so I don't see why no one has one.

I think the civilian was intended not to kill so giving him an IED would be kinda lame. Also this would add realism you wouldn't know if he was a civilian or not so you would have to be extra careful.

Colt m1911 would be a good pistol. It seems to be one of the most common I've ever seen.

nick20404 wrote:I think the civilian was intended not to kill so giving him an IED would be kinda lame.

Right, and i wouldn't want the collaborator class to disappear. I just think that an ambusher shouldn't be walking around with a rifle. In real life if you were setting up IEDs to blow up some humvees, are you going to walk around with your rifle?

Pistol would work. If it can be concealed. And i guess it would be nice to have something to fall back on when you've blown up part of a convoy and the rest are on your ***.

badmojo420 wrote:Right, and i wouldn't want the collaborator class to disappear. I just think that an ambusher shouldn't be walking around with a rifle. In real life if you were setting up IEDs to blow up some humvees, are you going to walk around with your rifle?

Pistol would work. If it can be concealed. And i guess it would be nice to have something to fall back on when you've blown up part of a convoy and the rest are on your ***.

Ya but you also have to think the ambusher can ambush people with his rifle also, but it would be better with a pistol tbh all the Iraqi ins maps are city maps so you don't really need an sks that much. Pistols are not hard to conceal so it would be kinda realistic to pose as a civi.

If it is possible, the best thing to do is give them no weapons at all. And once they've placed their IED and mine, theres a short timer and then they are considered a civilian under the ROE. Because all they have is a cell phone. It would also be nice if you could toss your weapons, and after a while were considered a civ. As any insurgent. But i don't know if these things are possible with bf2.

If you have a weapon, such as a bomb, then it is legal to engage them. Besides, it is impossible to be a non-combatant yet be planting and detonating IEDs.

Solid Knight wrote:If you have a weapon, such as a bomb, then it is legal to engage them. Besides, it is impossible to be a non-combatant yet be planting and detonating IEDs.

Sure, if an insurgent is walking down the street carrying an artillery shell he's fair game. But the IED used in-game is small enough that it could be hidden.

I would like it even more if it could be coded so that when they are carrying the mine or ied, they are legal to kill. But a while after they've been placed, they turn into a non-combatant. Because all they have is a cell phone.

It would bring the realistic problem of anyone can just whip out a phone, and blow up an IED. But you still can't just roll around killing everyone with a cell phone. Yet, with good recon, you could still kill the enemy and neutralize the threat. Because as soon as you see him pull out a weapon. You'd have X amount of time to kill him. Or at the very least tell your team about the threat and possible location of an unarmed collaborator.

If the current ambusher class got an AK, nobody would pick any other class. The SKS sucks, but it still promotes that idea of the IEDs and mines being backup weapons. When they're the real weapons in that kit. This would effectively put these weapons into the hands of people who can use them correctly. Because most ambushers could live with a longer spawn time. Because they don't face direct combat like the rest of the insurgents. People who simply grab the kit and rush in, in case they need to throw down an IED as a last resort. Wouldn't want to wait the extra time to get the goodies. Promoting the use of better suited kits.

These are just my opinions of how the kit should be used. I know everyone has their own strategies. But i think most people would agree that an ambusher with a high death count isn't doing his job correctly.

I saw just make him look like a Collaborator.

Pistol

IEDs etc.

Sounds interesting....mix things up a bit

Yes, interesting actually. Assuming we can get players to fear unarmed combatants, rather than act like its a game of paintball and shoot them on sight.

It splits the insugents into two distinct groups -direct combat and indirect combat- both with their own strengths and weaknesses. Rather than men with guns and men who get shot...

Sounds good, and the system does work with the medic bag. At least in my experience..


This would add diversity to the civilian class.. since they act like unarmed scouts, they're very useful to have one in a squad.

Except not all civilians use IED's.. and this would make civilians be very very common in insurgency.. for the explosive power of the IED's. IED's are devistating enough when used properly..

Example:

A couple nights ago I was running an ambush squad in Al Basrah. On the main road, our full squad (6 ambushers) put down 10 IED's each, 60 ied's in total, since that's the cap per person. 2 APC's and a supply truck rolled in, and we figured we killed 2 squads of infantry (I figured they had a squad in each apc) plus 6 more guys to include the drivers and gunners of the apcs plus the 2 guys in the supply truck.


If you made "Ambushers" civilians.. then they would overpower the map. Since they can't be shot until they put down an IED, you never really know when they'll strike. Plus you can't shoot them unless they put down an IED.




I say no.. since it will overpower the class and make civilians too powerful.

good idea.
If the insurgent takes out an IED or Cellphone/Detonator he should be allowed to be killed for something like 1-2 minutes.

there can be also pistols for also for normal insurgents

but weapon for Civi wont be fair.

instead of making the civilian an ambusher i agree that the current Ambusher needs to be redone. And the Ambusher should look identical to a Collaborator.

- Unarmed
- Rocks
- Pistol
- F1 Grenades
- Grenade Traps
- IED/Cell Phone
- Prox IED(Mine)
- Binoculars

Is this suppose to fully replace the civilian?

Because it will no one would play the medic civilian and the Medic civilian would be killed even more.

I dislike the idea of giving any civilian class a gun of any type reason being the civilian could just wait for the BlueFour and shoot him in the back the bluefour wouldn't stand much of a chance when go go's to knife the civilian and gets shot by the civilian.

R.J.Travis wrote:Is this suppose to fully replace the civilian?

Because it will no one would play the medic civilian and the Medic civilian would be killed even more.

I dislike the idea of giving any civilian class a gun of any type reason being the civilian could just wait for the BlueFour and shoot him in the back the bluefour wouldn't stand much of a chance when go go's to knife the civilian and gets shot by the civilian.

No, this would go along side the current civ. It would replace the current ambusher. And, I don't want to give him any guns. After thinking about that suggestion, i think the only weapons he should get is the IED and mine.

There would still be a need for the medic civ, since they still need a medic, squad leader, & mortar support. I would make the phone considered a weapon. So if the current collaborator doesn't want to be confused with an ambusher, don't pull out the phone. And since it's used only to call in mortars, maybe it should also make them a legal target. I know i've taken the penalties when i've seen a collaborator pulling his phone out while staring at our firebase. It's better then a shower of mortars. It should be a legal kill in my opinion.

Make it so the civilian is fair game for 2 minutes when he pulls out a weapon. We should also create a medic class or a scout class that has the Lee-Enfields (I believe hundreds were left in Iraq after the Ango-Iraq War), a grappling hook, a medic bag, a cell phone (to call mortar strikes in presence of Commander), a knife, and some field dressings. This shouldn't be hard. We could take the Taliban medic, and add these things.

So what I am saying is that we should replace collaborator with the IED collaborater, and move his stuff to a Scout kit with a bolt-action rifle, all the civilian stuff (other than stone), and a knife.

aperson444 wrote:Make it so the civilian is fair game for 2 minutes when he pulls out a weapon. We should also create a medic class or a scout class that has the Lee-Enfields (I believe hundreds were left in Iraq after the Ango-Iraq War), a grappling hook, a medic bag, a cell phone (to call mortar strikes in presence of Commander), a knife, and some field dressings. This shouldn't be hard. We could take the Taliban medic, and add these things.

So what I am saying is that we should replace collaborator with the IED collaborater, and move his stuff to a Scout kit with a bolt-action rifle, all the civilian stuff (other than stone), and a knife.

But if you give either one a weapon, you end up with same system. Insurgents whos' intentions can be identified just by looking at them. Right now, you see a civie, you know he's a civie. You see an ambusher and know instantly he is an enemy combatant. It never comes down to what actions that person is doing. Its very video gamey. And unrealistic. If you have multiple classes of civies, you'll have confusion in the coalition. They'll be encouraged to observe and determine if he is an enemy combatant and should be engaged, or is he doing nothing wrong according to the ROE, so instead he should be apprehended and questioned. (Restraining him)

That was my whole point with this change. All the talk about giving weapons goes against this idea. Not that any of those suggestions were bad, they just don't go along with the idea i'm trying to get implemented.

badmojo420 wrote:But if you give either one a weapon, you end up with same system. Insurgents whos' intentions can be identified just by looking at them. Right now, you see a civie, you know he's a civie. You see an ambusher and know instantly he is an enemy combatant. It never comes down to what actions that person is doing. Its very video gamey. And unrealistic. If you have multiple classes of civies, you'll have confusion in the coalition. They'll be encouraged to observe and determine if he is an enemy combatant and should be engaged, or is he doing nothing wrong according to the ROE, so instead he should be apprehended and questioned.(Restraining him)

That was my whole point with this change. All the talk about giving weapons goes against this idea. Not that any of those suggestions were bad, they just don't go along with the idea i'm trying to get implemented.

Gosh Mojo.. You should stay off my hard drive.

+1

-REad

If it's possible, you could just skin all insurgents to loook like the civie and give them all an unarmed option so the Coalition forces would need to identify a hostile before shooting.

darkcloak2 wrote:If it's possible, you could just skin all insurgents to loook like the civie and give them all an unarmed option so the Coalition forces would need to identify a hostile before shooting.

You could...but that assumes that an insurgent could hide a big sniper rifle, and AK, etc. It seems a little unrealistic.