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I have been lurking on the forums lately and I have noticed some interesting tactics. One of these tactics is the concept of the fireteam, or breaking up a squad into smaller parts with different roles. I practiced these tactics in Full Spectrum and applied some of what I learned into my PR squad leader experiences. To do this, I break my squad down into two fireteams, an "Advance team" and a "Cover/Security team." These two teams, when executed with enough precision can be very effective. Here is the standard Breakdown.

Infantry Squad
Fireteam 1: Security/Suppression Team

• [1]Officer/Combat Engineer (Usually officer unless there is a special case.)
  [2]Automatic Rifleman
  [3]Medic (Also functions as a rear guard for close range flank attempts)

Fireteam 2: Assault Team

• [4]Rifleman/Grenadier
  [5]Rifleman Specialist
  [6]Medic (Also functions as a rear guard for close range flank attempts)

The organization works like this, the squad leader orders the squad around as an entire unit, and will give orders to fireteam 2. But player 4 has general small-range leadership over his fireteam in case they are very far away in a tactical sense. For example, let's say that on Ghost train the SL sends his advance team across one of the rope bridges and has the cover team watch the bridge for Chinese forces. When the Chinese do arrive, the advance team will move further into the forest in order to flank the Chinese. With this, the advance team is now well out of the visual range of the squad leader. Even though the objective is to flank the enemy squad while team 1 keeps them occupied, player 4 will have general leadership over the fireteam as they flank (Throw a grenade here, go around this building, etc). This was a very effective strategy that I used on ghost train, with an advance team flanking enemy attacks and a cover team defending important areas. We managed to win the better part of 5 flag attacks, 2 flag defenses and some random skirmishes with many rallies killed by the advance team.

You may see some problems with this.

• [1]Two medics decreases the squad's overall firepower.

Not necessarily, remember the medic has his ability to cover the rear of a squad. Imagine this, the cover team is engaging an enemy while the advance team is flanking around the side. Lets put our combatants in Fallujah (Spelling FAIL) West. The covering team is using a corner by firing around it. The automatic Rifleman is standing up firing around at some insurgents while the squad leader is either crouched or laying down directly in front of him to try and make accurate shots at the enemy (This has actually happened to me). Meanwhile, the medic is fully protected by the corner and is waiting for a casualty or an enemy to sneak around the corner. In the event that an enemy does try to hit the squad from behind, the medic is already in a prone position watching the six and 9. It shouldn't be too long before the advance team either finds the rally of the enemy squad and destroys it, or gets behind the enemy team and destroys them from behind.

• [2]The squad leader should be with the advance team

Really? Well, what if the squad leader is with the advance team? What you get is a serious imbalance in firepower. You leave the automatic rifleman undefended from any more enemies and you overpower the advance team. The advance team is made to specialize in close quarters battle. The officer is best used to pick off suppressed enemies while aiding the automatic roflman with grenades, targets and precision fire. Also, in the event of a really bad moment, the leader is already behind the "Front lines" ready with two squad members to set a rally point if things go really bad. For example, that same game on ghost train where my squad was covering a bridge. My advance team noted that while they flanked and removed a squad already, two more were on the advance. The combat zone wouldn't allow my squad to flank, and they came under fire. Since we had some cover fire, we were able to get the squad on their way to escape while I pulled back the rally point. Because the advance team has their own medic, they can function as a mini squad and can be self sustaining until they regroup with the other team.

• [3]Lack of shovels..
  SL can be combat engineer if you need to rush a firebase in Asad Khal Making, I believe, 4 shovels with Engineer, Automatic Roflman, roflman specialist and roflman ammo.

I've had varying success with this team, keeping cohesion and involving advancing as a unit before the flank begins. How would a team like this, already organized before a round started, go about advancing?

I usually pair up with APCs whenever my friends are on Xfire, so mechanization is already figured out. But often times, I can't get a smart APC to actually stick around to support my squad with out taking a dump (dropping ammo) and speeding off to get more 1337 killz.

There is ANOTHER option. The LIGHT infantry squad which consists of 5 men. Shortened down, using less limited kits and small enough to fit inside HMMWVs.

Light Infantry Squad
Fireteam 1: Suppression Team

• [1]Officer/Combat Engineer (Usually officer unless there is a special case.)
  [2]Medic (Fuctions as HMMWV gunner unless there is a casualty.

Fireteam 2: Assault Team

• [3]Rifleman
  [4]Rifleman Specialist/Grenadier
  [5]Grenadier (Also functions as a rear guard for close range flank attempts)

This squad works in essence, the same way. However, the automatic rifleman is replaced by the HMMWV gunner and the HMMWV functions as cover for the SL. This can even work well in villages in the squad is cohesive enough. It is best to stay dismounted and at least 55m from the HMMWV but in relative distance to run back to it in the event of a firefight. The HMMWV should try to distance itself from the enemy and then function as mobile cover. The HMMWV is great cover, many times I have found my squads praising "Made in USA." It can eat RPGs, Grenades, RPK fire, AK fire, and anything short of an RPG spam and IED.

~What do you think of these squads?

I like the layout but the medic should never be the gunner/driver on a Humvee. If he's in the F3-F5 position he'll heal anyone who gets in the car.

I always had medics forming hospitals when inside the gunner seat of Humvees. Just did it on Archer.

For the love of the military please call them Alpha-Bravo team or Assault and Suppression team. Sorry, it just irks me.

i always issue my squad this:

Officer
Myself offcourse

Automatic Rifleman
Should always be standard

Rifleman AT/Rifleman AA
Depends on the map and situation

Rifleman
Ressuply the rockets or fielddressings

medic/specialist
Depends on map and situation

medic
Should always be standard

its pretty much a squad that can handle the most stuff.

{9thInf} Archer wrote:For the love of the military please call them Alpha-Bravo team or Assault and Suppression team. Sorry, it just irks me.

When I use them in game, I go by these names. But here I just put team 1 and team 2 to keep things simple to read. But I'll change it because it's just that bad

Thoughts on my squad loadout?

Always take normal kits, no specialist kits needed with the rational being that you can take down/avoid most things with the basic kits, no point wasting them!

So for me:

Officer, 2 medics, if urban then 1 rifleman spec and 2 scoped, if not then 3 scoped.

1 medic will be combat based when in cramped situations whilst the other stays supporting. Officer essentailly acts as an extra scoped rifleman.

I don't really see the point in having a marksman/saw gunner etc. you'll be more scared of losing the kit than using it, also you're taking kits out of the pool.

chimpyang wrote: I don't really see the point in having a marksman/saw gunner etc. you'll be more scared of losing the kit than using it, also you're taking kits out of the pool.

So whats the point of the kits then?

I always like to get a SAW on the off chance that the pubbies I play with can comprehend suppressing fire and flanking maneuvers. That and its great in a defense. Even the dimmest noob can under stand 'fire at anything bad that comes through that gate'.

Mostly, they are redundant! There are only few circumstances where they will be needed, and it's better to request when needed or let someone else deal with it using either a suitable vbehicle (or you may be too far out to request) than runing round with the off chance that the situation arises. The main enemy you face on most maps is infantry, and the normal weapons work very well. Easiest way to neuter the saw gunner in the environment you#ve just described is to use the rifleman specialist, bounding over across to different street and producing varied angles of attack. You can play a more risky game with tactics if you're not thinkniog that you'll lose the LAT kit.

Derailed thread has been DERAILED.

Anyway, the saw gunner is very important. It can be very successful in Ghost Train, Barracud a and many others. If no one took kits because they were saving them for some special moment kits wouldn't be needed ever. Kits are very important and medics can make sure that your AUTO rifleman can stay alive for a long time if he happens to get picked off. It's just a matter of making sure that your riflemen are attracting most of the the fire

What you said does have it's place though. Kits like the HAT, Sniper, AA and sometimes LAT should be reserved for special moments. But, when I was doing a mech infantry squad (6 infantry with 2 APC guys over xfire) in one of the previous versions I always had someone carry LAT because APC fights were usually about who started shooting first. The LAT guy would ensure that all APC fights were won by my group.

The SAW gunner can easily kill HMG positions if he starts shooting at it first. Putting a SAW in a good place and pointing out targets with my GLTD while another group flanks is how my squad managed to take Rock Fort in Op. Barra. Besides the few CAS strikes we had, 6 men taking on a flag is something very commendable.

Again, disagree. If everyone didn't take kits everywhere, we'd get a lot more milage and less of the oh ef, why are the extra limited kits not available?!!?!! when an APC rolls over the hill. Therefore you'd have assignations to specific "missions" or tasks as needed, unfortunately, that's not how it works in public play, and setting the example in how you would like to play is a principle rather than thinknig "well everyone else does it". The SAW kit can be useful ingame, but not enough that I'd sacrifice someone with a scope or a graplling hook to take it all the time.

Anyone with half a brain will go for your medics and SAW gunner first, they present the biggest percieved threat, plus, the SAW gunner usually lags behind so much to the squad given its role that it breaks up the squad....diving and conqouring.

Many squadleaders go for 2 medics.... I don't really see the point of having 2!!!

Example 1.

Squadleader gets wounded and both medics rush to him and all 3 of you get a grenade or gets shot since the medics both had taken out there medic packs.......


Example 2. Both medics start an argument about ....do you get him up??? do I??? wasting time figuring it out in the middle of a firefight.

Ofcourse if your split in 2 it can be handy with an extra medic nearby but is'nt it true that the Medics have Lighter armour (atleast they had in BF2) so by having 2 easy medic targets and 1 lesser weapon (no grenades) id say 1 medic is enough.


Should that 1 medic get killed it only takes 1 click to pickup his kit and bingo.. your "medic" is alive again.


When im squadleader I ask for 1 medic....and 1 guy is gonna babysit/cover that medic when he is getting someone else up

Offence is the best defence......to often it happens that squads gets wiped because there where to many medics patching up wounded people and noone is able to cover the medic


6 men if 2 are medics and 3 people are wounded then 1 medic is risking his life while patchign up someone...would be better if that extra medic had a capable firearm and could give good cover untill the "real" medic was done with his job.

If your squad took a massive hit and the medic can't keep up then he can always just "play dead" and wait untill they think your all dead. Usualy works in the forest maps.

I think what you guys are doing is limiting your tactics severely because you assume everyone is stupid.

I don't know how many times a SAW gunner has saved my ***. Saw gunners are the only way to effectively put fire down range at a high rate. I mean if we're gonna talk about likely ways your squad will perform badly the most common one is nobody shoots when you tell them to. With a saw gunner at least you can put 600 rounds per minute downrange by yelling at one guy.

To defend an area without an LMG is insane. Theres a reason that since WW1 the machine gun has been key in every small unit tactic.

Same for 2 medics. 2 medics are just 2 riflemen who have medic bags. They fire and fight and when someone is down one of them gets him up. If you're being a good leader you encourage your medics to NOT cease firing until the threat is gone or until you reposition your people so that you can focus on the casualty. You have 3 minutes to get a medic to revive someone. Thats an eternity. No need to be hasty.

All of this fail talk comes down to people not doing their jobs right. Saw gunners leading the charge, medics not using their rifles enough or people just not being smart and getting wasted for it.

Good squads use kits effectively. I've kept a SAW kit for 3 hours on karbala once, thats 3 hours moving into the dense city scape. A saw gun can hold a street hostage or pin a rooftop while 5 other guys rush in and take a cache.

Pessimism never got a squad leader anywhere.

That said, yes waste of kits is lunacy. No need to grab something if you don't intend on using it, therefore only assign your limited kits, don't let them take them. I immediately kick snipers who take it. "Go make a sniper squad then".

If you're crossing open desert and you face a Technical suddenly or you encounter enemy troops a SAW gun is the only way to give them the shock and fire downrange necessary to maneuver to assault their positions. Without the SAW gun you can't maneuver your squad sufficiently since 6 guys is too small to practically split up if you were just riflemen on semi auto.

The last PRT Battle I played on Saturday, the SAW gunner in one of our squads got 19 kills and one death.

Agreed with PFunk

In my opinion the SAW is more useful than the regular ACOG-rifleman, that only wants to engage the enemy at his own will with out calling targets before firing since he can. The SAW in good hands + occational attack mark from SL is a winning combo.

The first 3 kits squad should take (imo) are: Officer, medic, SAW

Agreed as well I also like a grenadier that uses the nade's to surpress them. But having a LMG in your squad works wonders.

Agree that the Saw is always nice to have.

I still don't agree that 2 medics is better than 1. like you said you got 3 min. to rescue whoever is wounded so why have 2 medics since only 1 can effectly heal under cover....Ofcourse as a medic you should fight down the threat, but seriosly how would you know when the threat is eliminated unless if you expect the enemy to be stupid and use autofire giving away there position. You may have shot the guy that wounded whoever, but that dos'nt mean that others are preparing a flank on you while they know you got a wounded guy and they are getting ready to shoot the medic+ the guy going black.

Thats the strategi i use if im the one attacking.... hit as many as possible (hopefully wound them so they cant move) then hold fire pretending they killed me.....go around....then knife the medic and everyone else that can't see shit for the blood effect.

Officer
Medic
Saw/Rifleman
Granadier/Rifleman
HAT/AT/rifleman
Specialist

if 1 guy is wounded then you still got 3 people with scopes + grenades + extra ammo for AT and 1 with a cover fire weapon.

If your enemy is'nt tactical then yes 2 medics can be great since you won't need to worrie about flanks or any other tactical attack comming down on your 2 medics...besides if you consider yourself a skilled squad why would you need 2 medics in the first place? unless if your doing a rambo move outnumbered vs a heavy fortified encampment.

Actualy i prefer the medic weapon (in the forrests) but 2 or 3 well placed grenades is often better than spending time patching up your buddies because they got shot by an enemy LMG that you coud'nt get a clear shot on.

The reason this strategy has two medics is so that each fireteam can function as it's own unit. I've had fireteams move distances so far from each other that the two medics were needed in order to keep the teams functional. The medics both ran out of epipens several times during a game because of the fact that we had our medic tactics solid and cold! Yes, the medic functions very well as a rifleman when the SL uses his attack markers and GLTD to make accurate fire at long ranges possible with irons.

Your arguments only work if the squad leader doesn't know what he's doing. Even in this case, yelling at your SAW gunner to get back is something I find myself doing very often. It comes with being SL, it's your job to maintain cohesion and order within a squad. If you're not doing that then you aren't doing your job as an SL. I've had SAW gunners who are new at the job learn quickly by simply telling them that they have to stay back and provide cover fire where I direct it, when I direct it from where I direct it. It was tiring, it was taxing and it was difficult but that's what PR is. However, when all of the effort paid off and the squad got more used to the fighting style, we accomplished our mission. The Suppression team suppressed and the assault team removed rallies and destroyed squads from behind.

The only time your arguments work is when PR players are reckless, this argument could also be turned on other things. "Eff! Why are there no tanks or APCs around." "Yeah, we should have saved them." This obviously doesn't work, what would the result be if this was the mindset of the MEC team on Kashan? The US would overwhelm their infantry. This is the same thing on Ghost Train. If your infantry aren't using the weapons when the firefights erupt, you won't have the time to run back to the truck to get them for those "Special moments." You have to have them when you're in the jungle and when you're moving between because those are when the important, game turning firefights actually occur.

^
Absolutely true. Another good reason to have 2 medics is redundancy. Should one medic go down, especially since .85, its nice to have another one. Your squad's survival is leaning on that medic, having two can have a hugely significant effect on things.

I mention .85 especially since kits now vanish in 30 seconds. I've very often seen it that by the time someone goes to grab that medic kit and revive people it has vanished. And where are you then? You're down to 4 people or fewer usually, cause if you can't get that kit back in 30 seconds its a significant contact you're dealing with.

Plan for the worst, and work up from there. There is nothing wrong with the iron sights of the medic kit anyway. If you're using proper suppression techniques you're not even trying to hit as accurately as an ACOG lets you. Plus its nice to have an iron sight around for when you assault a building and even if you have a dedicated assault fireteam, your BOF team will have to assault every now and then. It just happens that way.

What is a second medic, if nothing else? A tactical reserve.

PFunk wrote:Absolutely true. Another good reason to have 2 medics is redundancy. Should one medic go down, especially since .85, its nice to have another one. Your squad's survival is leaning on that medic, having two can have a hugely significant effect on things.

Also, with the 2nd medic, you have the ability as an SL to send self sufficient groups out and not have to worry about your own group not having a medic or the forward group not having a medic. This increases the distance the groups can move from each other. Very useful for long bridges or other choke points.

PFunk wrote:I mention .85 especially since kits now vanish in 30 seconds. I've very often seen it that by the time someone goes to grab that medic kit and revive people it has vanished. And where are you then? You're down to 4 people or fewer usually, cause if you can't get that kit back in 30 seconds its a significant contact you're dealing with.

Smoke screens don't take that long to puff up, get your rifles shooting down range and get the guy back up in 20 seconds. I also think that kits, while not able to be picked up, can instead be regained if you are revived by a medic in the vicinity of the kit that you had.

PFunk wrote:Plan for the worst, and work up from there. There is nothing wrong with the iron sights of the medic kit anyway.

Yes, they are quite good! They are great for close quarters battle, covering the flank of a spotting SL and a suppressing machine gun.

PFunk wrote:If you're using proper suppression techniques you're not even trying to hit as accurately as an ACOG lets you. Plus its nice to have an iron sight around for when you assault a building and even if you have a dedicated assault fireteam, your BOF team will have to assault every now and then. It just happens that way.

That's true, the pistol and iron sights go well together, just leave the automatic rifleman about 50m behind you while you try to push forward

PFunk wrote:What is a second medic, if nothing else? A tactical reserve.

More than that! The second medic can function to make your group more self sufficient, not just in reserve but in full use as a combat medic. "You stab with pens and I'll use the bag." I've seen this work wonderfully in squads, even two man medic groups where one medic would purposefully suppress while the other one did the healing work. It kept the medics safe and allowed the other members of the squad to concentrate on the enemy while they were constantly revived by the independent medic group.