Project Reality Forums

Something has to be done about the AA as it does not seem to work well on public servers and it also forces air units to behave in non conventional ways (ill explain later)

The way I see AA working now is that as soon as you lock on a aircraft and fire, flares deployed after shooting do nothing and unless the aircraft is moving extremely quickly and adjacently to the AA, it has very little chance to survive (almost none).

In a aircraft you only get the warning sound when you have been locked. Not when you are getting locked. As getting locked usually means death (if AA is manned by exp player, as he will shoot striaght away).

This forces players to fly in ways that are not realistic...

For example... ANY PERSON THAT HOVERS IN ANY CHOPPER IS A FOOL. Seriosuly, you cant hover unless you have flares deployed and as flares are very limited this makes it a option you cant have.

I believe only 5 or so pilots in PR know how to combat AA mechanics and keep themselves alive while doing their job for the team.

The cobra on muttrah for instance. The only way of using it effectively and with little risk of dying is to use a spotter and hydra the **** out of the target while having flares constant (I use 2 going in, 1 on target, 1 to get out and 1 spare). You cant hover ever on muttrah. You may say that you have hovered before and you killed lots of poeple which I reply that the opposition were not on high skill or exp level.

Attack choppers should be feared. When I see a cobra and Ive got a HAT or AA, I get excited. However, I should be looking for my nearest place of cover.

Changes I propose... Not all to implement but things to think about.

More flares.
Smaller damage on AA.
Slower AA missiles.
Lock on takes longer.
Lock on warning when someone is trying to lock on. (rather than when they HAVE locked on)
AA limited on how many can be built on whole map. (limited more I mean, say only 2. Maybe its possible to change the number for diff maps as maps like kashan wills till work fine with 4 AA placements.)
AA placement limited to flag radius.
Flares changed to the way in BF2 so that when flares are deployed while missile in flight, the missle will change course for the flares.
Decrease range of AA.
AA only built on flags you own.
AA moves with arrow keys and has a limited speed on moving (like the chechen cannons)
AA tweaked to be used as a scarer rather than a killer. So the attack chopepr is forced to run but has little risk of actually going down. You could implement this by giving the AA a very deadly shot but also making it have to lock on for a long time before shooting.
Remove built AA's and have more hand held AA's.
OR... Remove held AAs. Probably not incrase built aas though.

I beleive these changes, although some not realistic themselves, will have and show realistic reactions by players and have a better sort of gameplay for both teams.

Rather than this being a suggestion from me I like to see more of a discussion and some ideas thought out

Thanks
*=LP=* Luda

if i remember correctly, the damage models for aircraft are being tweaked for .86 so you may want to reverve your opionion until you get to play it.

O ok. Well I look forward to see how that works out.

Choppers will get more health and will have a 'barrier' health when nearly destoryed to give the pilot time *if h isnt too high* to get on the ground and bail out.

Well it doesnt make much diff for the team if the pilot suvived the cobra going down or not... I think its a good change but Im more intrested on the actual flying and not flying aspect.

More flares.

imo this is a must change or at least flares shoold be deployed in pairs, so you're not out of it after 4-5 drops

Lock on warning when someone is trying to lock on.

not realistic, since this missiles are passive

AA limited on how many can be built on whole map.
AA placement limited to flag radius.

agreed here + increase "warm up" time for stationary and hand-held AAs, MANPAD Igla takes at least 12 seconds to prepare before shooting

I mean with all respect to the OP.

You're Resuggestions (more the one) are not that good for game play sadly.

If we make AA less deadly In coalition weaponry It would just become arcadey, Stingers Don't miss often in the hands of a skilled solider, If they lower FoB AA numbers they will just be never used as the first to fobs will have already set the AA in a spot un-needed by public SL's.

They need to use CAS flairs PLEASE!

I am not sure if they changed the HP levels of the helicopters since I reported the Incurably low hp levels.

(0.869)

Apache died in (6) 50cal rounds and the Merlin was downed in (23) 50cal rounds.

This was just wow when tested now they may have changed this (lets hope to god) in the final copy of the patch.

I just feel the OP suggestions would just make the CAS support almost if not unstoppable.

I find that helicopter pilots in PR are our little talked about lone-wolves.

Yes, they are often in a named squad. Yes, they are often providing a service to the team , but rarely do I see them coordinating with one another. Most pilots pick up a squad from point a, then bring them to point b.

I recently tried a couple 'real world' Helicopter tactics, after not flying in PR for a couple years. I found these to be rather effective.

Fly in Pairs
Not only will you be able to provide flare coverage for one another -- uncoordinated ground forces will not concentrate fire on either of the helicopters, rather splitting their fire between the two. When one chopper is setting down for troops to disembark --or to deploy crates-- the second helicopter should circle in close proximitiy, once again drawing attention away from the vulnerable target.

False insertions
While enroute to your target (With your supporting chopper in tow,) appear to set down, or begin to set down in a variety of places, even those that may be out of your traditional flight plan. This can draw unwanted AA and small arms fire, but it can also draw attention away from your true LZ.

My two cents.

-REad

ETA:

R.J.Travis wrote: (0.869)
Apache died in (6) 50cal rounds and the Merlin was downed in (23) 50cal rounds.
This was just wow when tested now they may have changed this (lets hope to god) in the final copy of the patch.
I just feel the OP suggestions would just make the CAS support almost if not unstoppable.

Was this on the test server?

'[R-CON wrote:ReadMenace;1032965']I find that helicopter pilots in PR are our little talked about lone-wolves.

Yes, they are often in a named squad. Yes, they are often providing a service to the team , but rarely do I see them coordinating with one another. Most pilots pick up a squad from point a, then bring them to point b.

I recently tried a couple 'real world' Helicopter tactics, after not flying in PR for a couple years. I found these to be rather effective.

Fly in Pairs
Not only will you be able to provide flare coverage for one another -- uncoordinated ground forces will not concentrate fire on either of the helicopters, rather splitting their fire between the two. When one chopper is setting down for troops to disembark --or to deploy crates-- the second helicopter should circle in close proximitiy, once again drawing attention away from the vulnerable target.

False insertions
While enroute to your target (With your supporting chopper in tow,) appear to set down, or begin to set down in a variety of places, even those that may be out of your traditional flight plan. This can draw unwanted AA and small arms fire, but it can also draw attention away from your true LZ.

My two cents.

-REad

ETA:



Was this on the test server?

Yep you nailed it I was in a BH/LB squad on map Ramiel the LB would drop flairs for the BH drop offs and we never even came close to dieing the full round sadly you got to make a premade squad of friends to get that type of TW.

[R-CON]ReadMenace wrote:Was this on the test server?

No it was a server I was running I tested it over and over and over same results beside the merlin some times died at 22 or i miss counted by 1 bullet a few times.

on kashin a while back, we had 3 blackhalks up, 6 person squad, all had one blackhalk, one left door gunner, and we spun arround proving cas and trans for most the game. we got shot down due to hovering... but still, beside the point.

try and stick with multiple helos. if you have 3 helos with you and you say your locked you can all drop 1 thing of the 6 flares i think it is. thats alot of flares.

Problem with aa is not that its too powerful, but that it requires no teamwork to use, is way to abundant and proportional ranges aren´t factored in + view distance is too short.



In CA we don´t have heat objects on flares, so they don´t attract missiles, but instead they have a invisible globe that blocks lock and can detonate missiles. Missiles work very well, but all jets and attack helis have 120 flares that deploy at a rof of 600 rpm. Was 2 at a time but now its juts full auto since the rof is high enough for a quick 2 burst or more. On top of that hellfires can lock vehicles so it is no necessary to unrealistically hover within cannon range to be able to fire.


All in all we have found tactics to be much more realistic because low flying using terrain cover gives a much better advantage (high = aa trap) and you can also target realistically.

Also making the AA lock onto the flares during flight will make air nearly unstoppable. Flares once popped stay for about 5-8 seconds at times, and think of that times 5= around 40 seconds of complete covereage, enough to get out of view and aa range on most maps. Then they just pack up more flares and in they go.

Edit:woops didnt mean to type "even during" just ment during. And i noticed i spelt flares flairs in my first sentance.

All of these AA changes will help gameplay how? Will the game be funnier if the cobra gets 50+ kills instead of 10+ kills?

Kills aren´t the point...


Btw, the missiles lock onto flares now, the reason they don´t seem to is because of the sound warning delay and the low view distance/speed of the missile.

Keep the same...we just need more spotters

*IDEA*

AGM-88 HARMs
-Used on A-10/F-16/etc..., targets AA from up to 1.5km away when their radar is active

And keep AA same

most of AA represented in PR are passive, so HARM is useless

Ye but u can zoom in on the aa so u should be able to get some of the flares out of view, however missles dnt lock on to flares in real life they do however try to decive the missle heat seakin missles lock onto engines, phospouros flares are hotter than any engine but quite small so u dump alot at once

Several times ive had at least one other huey follow me in if nothing else just for the extra flare coverage. Ive also done the same to Cobras's just fly near them to present another target for aa and sometimes fly in their squad as an ariel recon.

"Luda's AA thinking"? What's with all these threads with peoples bloody names on? Has the suggestions forum turned into a sodding blog or summet?

AAs are a pain in the arse for pilots yes, but the point of having flares is to deploy them BEFORE you suspect your gonna get locked, besides a few of the more experienced and skilled pilots know how to dodge, or at least minimise the damage by trying to avoid, missiles. The damage modifications for the next patch sound interesting though, especially for transport helis.