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I may be breaking new ground by complaining about a new patch before it's even been released, but looking at the changelog for the upcoming 0.86 release, I fear the dev's are on the verge of repeating the mistakes of 0.80 and ruining the insurgency game mode by nerfing the **** out of the insurgent's weapons.

IMO 0.85 was very good in terms of balance, and only needed a few tweaks. The short-range effectiveness of the AK rifles made a good yin to the yang of BLUFOR long-range firepower. Now with BLUFOR getting a long-range LMG-sniper rifle and insurgents getting nerfed across the board (with the exception of more clips for the Druganov), I worry that my favorite game mode may become critically unbalanced.

Strangely, the one insurgent weapon that stood out as unbalanced - the shotgun - looks like the only weapon that's not being changed. I doubt the new system of 2-caches-with-2-rpgs-each will do much to tip the scales in favor of the insurgents - especially with the already inaccurate rpg becomming even harder to hit with.

That new Elcan scopes look cool, but if the planned changes go forward I worry that the Americans/Brits won't have any targets to use them on. Even if the tweaks to the cache spawning system helps the insurgents, no one will want to play them if it's impossible to get kills & to be an insurgent basically means being a moving target for the Americans/Brits. And with the flat requirement of 50 intel points to reveal a cache, the deck will truly be stacked. You might as well give the insurgents bright orange hunting vests and super soakers.

0.80 was a nightmare for most servers, please don't let this version take us back there. It took months for the servers to start filling up again, and they didn't even completely refill until 0.85 was released. Please don't trigger an exodus of PR players to ARMA2. I strongly urge the devs to reconsider the changes to insurgency mode before releasing the new patch.

Let's see how it goes first. It isn't the time for complaining.

Only 2 revealed caches. Which means more insurgents for defending. But as Gore says, let's see how it goes first.

combatwombat wrote: Strangely, the one insurgent weapon that stood out as unbalanced - the shotgun - looks like the only weapon that's not being changed. I doubt the new system of 2-caches-with-2-rpgs-each will do much to tip the scales in favor of the insurgents - especially with the already inaccurate rpg becomming even harder to hit with.

By no means is the RPG inaccurate. I'm pretty sure it has the same deviation as a regular L-AT, and the same settle time (2 seconds). Also, I would say that the AKS 74U was way more unbalanced than the shotgun - it had basically no recoil or deviation (like the shotgun, but faster shooting) but could also be used in single shot mode for far away-ish targets.

AKS74U really needs that nerfing, its like MP5 but uses same ammo as assault rifles. On single shot you can take out anything you can see with it, anytime. It is good they nerfed it because now like half of the uses it and the rest have sapper. then there is few guys who don't know about the AKS74U and take some other kit.

Insurgents should be ambushing the enemies in close quarters and not shooting them from 300m away. Insurgents aren't conventional forces and thats why they have their own way of fighting. If insurgents start playing like you would play on canventional armies you will get your asses kicked.

Insurgency at the moment doesn't really work very well I find. I mean it's either horribly unbalanced (like 0. or as it is now glorified AAS with some funny hats. I believe insurgency needs a large amount of work done to it so that it can be more asymmetrical and original.

Actually on that note has anyone else noticed a gradual change of maps from asymmetrical to symmetrical? Qwai is changing to APC vs APC, the who mobility versus firepower thing is gone. In fact pretty much the only asymmetrical maps seem to be the carrier attack maps such as muttrah and barracuda.

You know what, I'm just rambling now, I may make a thread for this stuff but I'll shut up for now.

decreased AK47 accuracy - 30% less accurate than conventional army rifles.

Am I the only person who thinks that the AK-47 is pretty good right now? I understand the changes in AKSU but Insurgents are on pretty thin ice after that change.

And I still can't undestand the spawntimes for them. Most of the times its nearly 45 seconds which way too much for them. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see any 10-15sec instaspawning but they should have less than the conventional armies. And that's pretty much the only thing I hate about them right now

Jedimushroom wrote: Actually on that note has anyone else noticed a gradual change of maps from asymmetrical to symmetrical? Qwai is changing to APC vs APC, the who mobility versus firepower thing is gone. In fact pretty much the only asymmetrical maps seem to be the carrier attack maps such as muttrah and barracuda.

You know what, I'm just rambling now, I may make a thread for this stuff but I'll shut up for now.

Yes, do this please. I also observed this trend. Especially Qwai was one of the most interesting maps with the current layout.

I'm split on the AK74U only because I love it so much. Surprisingly it's a great gun for mid and short range combat (imo). I'm dissappointed that the accuracy will be decreased and the recoil increased. Yet, again the insurgents could fall under the truck that is coalition. I hoped that the insurgents could keep a good fight going for them for the versions to come. But as it has been said, "We'll see how it goes."

I am I the only one seeing the coaltion getting their arses kicked most of the time by any halfway organised insurgents/taliban at the moment, unless the coaltion are very organised with extensive intra-squad co-operation and good tactics?

I also see the insurgents steamroll the BluFor the majority of the times I've played, and I think going to 2 caches will make it even more difficult. I mainly see the BluFor win when they camp common cache locations and insurgents don't have a commander for artillery.

Jedimushroom wrote:Insurgency at the moment doesn't really work very well I find. I mean it's either horribly unbalanced (like 0. or as it is now glorified AAS with some funny hats. I believe insurgency needs a large amount of work done to it so that it can be more asymmetrical and original.

Actually on that note has anyone else noticed a gradual change of maps from asymmetrical to symmetrical? Qwai is changing to APC vs APC, the who mobility versus firepower thing is gone. In fact pretty much the only asymmetrical maps seem to be the carrier attack maps such as muttrah and barracuda.

You know what, I'm just rambling now, I may make a thread for this stuff but I'll shut up for now.

..i've been complaining about that since .7... ><

lets just wait and see what its like when it comes out...

Idk in my games the Coalition Forces steamroll the ins. AFAIK in insurgency its supposed for the Coalition Forces to have the "OMG theyre everywhere" feeling not the other way around (as it is now)

Leave the AK as it is (well if you think a insurgent hitting a barn door from 20 meters is defying the laws of physics then at least do a 10-20% decrease...30% is a bit overboard). Leave the respawn timers as it is (this is too much already) or reintroduce random spawns. Hideouts arent that often built (rarely to be exact) and you cant have the insurgents walk from the closest spawn (another cache or a mosque) to the other side of the map. By the time they respawn and get to there the coalition forces can already attack the other cache

the insurgents are not being nerfed. not at all.

main changes:

*only have to defend 2 caches. this is HUUUUUGE (as paris hilton would say). trying to defend 3 caches was a nightmare for the insurgents. no other force is asked to defend three places at once. this will focus the action better and make the mode more fun for both sides. this one change changes everything.

*2 RPGs per cache. the RPGs are not hard to fire in the current version. they're not hard to fire at all. i will wait to see how the accuracy changes affect the RPG, but i am not worried about that. adding another RPG to the cache will make a cache MUCH more defendable from vehicles.

*collaborator changes. this is another game changer. the collaborator will be played much more in the new version. having a good collaborator makes the insurgents hard as hell to deal with in .85 so it'll be that much better in .86. as a long time player of the collaborator class, i am most excited about this change over any other in .86. the collaborator will now be able to grab a fallen teammate's weapon if the action gets too thick. we will definitely see more collaborators in .86, so this is another big change in favor of the insurgents. imagine trying to play as the US without a medic most of the time. this is what .85 insurgency has been in most squads. insurgency with collaborators is a different animal.

i am so excited about .86 insurgency that i cant even play .85 insurgency right now. just wait...insurgency is taking a huge step forward with this next patch.

Ahem..

HOW ABOUT YOU WAIT UNTIL IT COMES OUT AND YOU HAVE PLAYED IT!

Lock incoming surely.

Disclaimer: I would have posted this had I stress tested PR0.86 or not these kinds of threads are stupid you are, in effect, complaining about something you have never played and therefore do not know enough about to make an informed suggestion.

Don't be silly, mindless speculation is a pre-patch tradition. After all the apocalypse is coming...

One big advantage for the insurgents is that the enemy is mixed up with civilians, making it much harder for the army (exacly like in real life). When you're now able to pick up Ak's, people will not get afraid of using civilian, as they can change when they get bored.

I think it's pretty balanced, actually.

It actually makes a point with the nerfing...insurgent battles should be mainly CQB and chaotic pretty much.

combatwombat wrote:I may be breaking new ground by complaining about a new patch before it's even been released, but...

*cues Zelda "new item" music*



You unlocked a Patience Bear and Friends card!




But seriously Lets wait til we all play it in 1 day and THEN we'll all be able to start evaluating the changes. We'll be MORE than happy to discuss it after a few days of playing it publicly


[I had to... the idea came to me and I ran with it. But seriously, just wait and see, then we'll open up the forums to discuss all the changes]