Project Reality Forums

This thread has been revived by my new post made in March of 2013.

Human_001 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbGixCAb0B8

I will post the Youtube video adress here, so when people open this thread they know why this thread is among other active threads.

Please read my first post of this thread (below), then watch that video on youtube (above), then please read why I revived this thread by going to the quote above, and discuss.

Thanks
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I played this new AK47, AK74, and AKS74U combination of arsenal since its release, played alot thinked more than twice and I think AK using faction needs AKM.

Reason being, to put it simple it is because AKM have lower recoil than AK47.

Second reason is, in real war today Insurgent/ Militia/ Terrorist when ever you see what media call AK47 its AKM. Sometimes even conventional military still use them, like Russia, Vietnam, North Korea. But media don't know or care about gun model so when they see that black ugly gun with light brown wood grip they just call them AK47.

The huge reason is because controllability characteristic change affect gameplay severely. I'm not asking for AKM for such reason like "because it looks cool", like adding vertical grip/flashlight or rotating bayonet in hand before fixing it on rifle.

In few of previous releases AK47 recoil was almost ridiculous.
But now, IT IS Realistic.

Current AK47 has fullauto controllability issue. And I think from information I have from extensive reading about this guns characteristic (from multiple Webpages to book written by Kalashnikov himself) what is depicted now is VERY realistic. Maybe at best sicne Version 0.6. Even more so with comparing it with other guns in game.

AKM was created to fix few problem AK47 had. One of them is the fullauto controllability issue. It was not easy to control and it was very innacurate at full auto fire. To counter this, AKM was equipped with slant muzzle brake and straight buttstock. Which both AK47 lacked, and it is what caused the AK47 to be very innacurate in full auto fire.

By adopting straight buttstock, recoil of gun transfer straight into shooters shoulder horizontal to barrel and direction of gun. But with previous slanted buttstock used in AK47, by not absorbing recoil straight to direction of barrel, muzzle jumped upward. ( I don't know how this physics work)

Another thing that is very much helping to reduce the recoil is that little metal on tip of barrel, what now known as slant muzzle brake. If you take closer looks at picture of AKM, maybe you can see the tip of AKM is pointed. Yes, that little maybe not even 1 inch thing is whats making all the difference in the world. by cutting piece of metal in slant angle to right-up direction (which is the direction of AK muzzle jump. When you shoot AK47 it will jump up and bit to right) gas escaping from muzzle will escape more in that direction causing counter force to original direction of muzzle jump that gun try to go.

Result is almost zero muzzle jump, kicks straight and hard into your shoulder rifle.

We used to have this video on Youtube that showed all the different types of muzzle brake using 7.62mm AK, which is now unavailable. It showed the result something like this:

-No muzzle brake: Muzzle jumps up and kick back.

-Slant muzzle brake: No muzzle jump. Kicks straight back.

-AK74 type muzzle brake: Slight jump. Very reduced felt recoil overall.

Yes, AK74 type muzzle brake not only kills upward muzzle jump but also kills overall recoil even the kickback recoil. I read about this muzzle brake on some website and I was surprised how it worked. It is using several number of jet of gas directed at different way to guide gas even after ejected from one port to deflect gas into yet another direction using another jet of gas. Which is depicted in this game very well. Compare to same caliber assault rifle like M16 and LA85, AK74 is much more controllable. I really wonder why won't just all military adopt such great system. Why use old birdcage type flashhider and have the annoying recoil?

I would like this alot, very good facts to back up your suggestion sir.

Sources please.

Here's the wiki.

After all, it is the most common AK-model. As you said, when people refer to a gun as the "AK47" it is usually the AKM they are talking about. The Kalashnikovs used throughout Africa, the Middle East and Asia are usually AKMs. The Chinese Type 56, one of the most common AK-variants, is based on the AKM rather than the original AK47.

But it wouldn't affect gameplay very much. The main difference between the original AK47 design and the AKM (except for slightly lower recoil) was that the latter was easier and cheaper to produce in huge numbers and more reliable (things we can't properly simulate in-game). If you want lower recoil, higher accuracy and more controllability the AK74 is there for you.

Alsom, the two weapons look so similar that a new model won't be necessary.

Wikipedia is not a reliable source in and of its self.

It also does not back up the claims being made in this thread.

[R-MOD]Bob_Marley wrote:Wikipedia is not a reliable source in and of its self.

It also does not back up the claims being made in this thread.

What do you know, smoking that blunt all day?

Kidding

'World.gun.ru;1092826' wrote:The key changes in AKM, as compared to AK, were the introduction of the stamped steel receiver instead of the milled one, and improved trigger/hammer unit, with added hammer release delay device (often incorrectly referred as a rate reducer). Other changes were the redesigned, slightly raised buttstock and the pistol grip, and the addition of the removable muzzle flip compensator. This spoon-like compensator is screwed onto the muzzle and utilized the muzzle blast to reduce muzzle climb during the automatic fire. The compensator could be replaced by the screw-on "PBS-1 noiseless firing device", generally known as a silencer. This silencer requires a special, sub-sonic ammunition with heavier bullets to be used. Another change from AK to AKM was a slightly improved rear sight, with settings from 100 to 1000 (instead of the 800 on AK) meters. Both 800 and 1000 meters, however, are way too optimistic for any practical use, since the effective fire is limited roughly to 300-400 meters, if not less.

Modern Firearms - Kalashnikov AK-47 AKM Assault Rifle

Well oddly enough I've never actually seen anyone explain how this site itself is reputable. But the guy apparently keeps up with things.

Anywho the site basically says that. "It was officially adopted in 1959 as the AKM" so its been produced since then. The Type 56 also can be either an AK or an AKM. Depending on when it was made. The Chinese apparently started upgrading there original Type 56s (based off the AK.) to AKMs without changing the designation.

{ Modern Firearms - Type 56 assault rifle }

On a slightly unrelated note. Has this been looked into?

'World.gun.ru;1092826' wrote:Another interesting note is that Chinese designers produced a compact version of the Type 56 rifle, known as Type 56C. It is apparently still in service with PLA, despite the fact that its full-size "brothers" have long been retired from general PLA service.

Just wondered what capacity it was used in if so. Anyone with enlightenment feel free to well.. Tell me? (PM will do.)

As for how the improvements helped the recoil of the weapon? I suppose that would require proper testing. As far as I know there is no assault rifle that has -zero- muzzle jump when fired in on automatic or single shot for that matter.

Though personally I don't see a problem with the current ingame AK. I can fire it more accurately in bursts then any other assault rifle but the non-optics AK-74 and QBZ-95. Mostly cause those guns have the closest to no recoil in the whole game.

The point of this post is to help with verifications of the actual physical facts. It has nothing to do with the suggestion itself.

And yet still no one has actually provided a source which verifies the original claim and the core of this suggestion, that the compensator on the AKM completley eliminates muzzle climb.

[quote=""'[R-MOD"]Bob_Marley;1092871']And yet still no one has actually provided a source which verifies the original claim and the core of this suggestion, that the compensator on the AKM completley eliminates muzzle climb.[/quote]


[quote="Cheesygoodness""]As for how the improvements helped the recoil of the weapon? I suppose that would require proper testing. As far as I know there is no assault rifle that has -zero- muzzle jump when fired in on automatic or single shot for that matter.

The point of this post is to help with verifications of the actual physical facts. It has nothing to do with the suggestion itself.[/quote]


o.o I just said that.

When in Doubt you tube it.
Type AKM in the search or some thing

Had a look at the AKMS what ever the hell that is.

AKM, I was not impressed there is no real improvement

how ever the AK 74 out of all of them i must say out of all of them the AK 74 is bloody scary very little recoil.

I see no reason for a new weapon. I choose my gun based on were i will be fighting.
AK-47 for street fights in cqc and AK-74 for longer range engangements.

Plus i dont find the recoil on the AK-47 hard to control unless im firing at targets 100m plus. In which case i should be firing in single. If you can't control the recoil then fire in small bursts of 3 to 5 shots.

Anyway, the AKM would just be a waste of time to make. The handi cap is there so that you dont get to choose a good all rounder as the insurgents.

Human_001 wrote:We used to have this video on Youtube that showed all the different types of muzzle brake using 7.62mm AK, which is now unavailable. It showed the result something like this:

-No muzzle brake: Muzzle jumps up and kick back.

-Slant muzzle brake: No muzzle jump. Kicks straight back.

-AK74 type muzzle brake: Slight jump. Very reduced felt recoil overall.

i remember that it was me who showed you that video after talking about the ak during a round of al basrah. it was a finnish guy that made a very nice comaprison.

[R-MOD]Bob_Marley wrote:And yet still no one has actually provided a source which verifies the original claim and the core of this suggestion, that the compensator on the AKM completley eliminates muzzle climb.

yeah, it doesn't eliminate it completely. it directs recoil into the shoulder, reducing muzzle rise. it's inferior to the ak74 style muzzle break (because it doesn't eliminate recoil in the same way, just redirects it) but is smaller and more simple in its design.

hiberNative wrote:i remember that it was i showing you that video after talking about the ak after a round of al basrah. it was a finnish guy that made a very nice comaprison.

Oh you still remember it? How cool! I wish I could show it here tho...

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If Wikipedia is not relieable enough, then what webpage is reliable?
I would like this information, so I can try to find this in that specific website.

YouTube - AK-47: Muzzle Brake and Firing

This is best I could find now.

Oh where did that video went?! Some of you guys surely have seen it. It was called something like 'AK muzzle brake compare'. As hiverNative said above it was finnish person testing 3 types of brakes ( None, Slant, and AK74 type) in snow.

The objective of this slant muzzle brake is to control the muzzle jump. Not to reduce the recoil. But if it kick straight back, it can not effect the repeat fire accuracy unless you lose your balance because gun is pushing you backward. Thus, even with high actual recoil, if concentrated at proper direction it will stop from reducing repart fire accuracy. Because now, even with high actual recoil, the gun is only moving backward, which will keep your sight on target. It only hurts your shoulder.

Oh, this is unrelated but I found some cool video of AK.
YouTube - Instructional video on how to handle AK-47

[R-MOD]Bob_Marley wrote:Wikipedia is not a reliable source in and of its self.

It also does not back up the claims being made in this thread.

Sorry sir, but wikipedia is relaible enough

[quote=""'[R-MOD"]Bob_Marley;1092871']And yet still no one has actually provided a source which verifies the original claim and the core of this suggestion, that the compensator on the AKM completley eliminates muzzle climb.[/quote]

though you probably know it to be so anyway

[quote="jbgeezer""]Sorry sir, but wikipedia is relaible enough[/quote]
Sorry but no, Wikipedia is NOT a reputable source for information due to it's open source means of gathering data

'[R-DEV wrote:Masaq;573968']Dear "Military Technology" Reader,

The moderating team have had a little discussion, and have struck upon the following brilliant idea, first suggested by Guns Guru(tm) Bob Marley.


Due to several discussions in recent months where forum members have made claims about "this calibre" or "that weapon", we will now be adding a need for reputable sources to any claims made in the MilTech section of the forum.

Posts made that give any kind of statistic or factual evidence (as opposed to opinion or personal experience) i.e.: "No, the maximum range for a SA-7 is THIS far..." should be backed up by evidence.

Wikipedia in itself does not consitute reputable.

Where this is need is completely overlooked, posts may be deleted without warning. Repeat offenders may be slapped with wet fish, or possibly warned depending just how bad a mood the moderators are in that day

In short, no more e-penis waving contests about your favourite piece of hardware without some proof that your e-penis really is that large, please.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f22-mi ... urces.html

Ok, maybe not, but I am pretty sure though, that the AKM has less muzzle climb than the AK47. You dont need to be an smartass to understand that.

well ingame that is the case yes? Certainly feels that way, especially after the latest patch since the 74 has got less climb than the 47

Human_001 wrote:Oh you still remember it? How cool! I wish I could show it here tho...

we talked about about russian arms. i remember it :3

If Wikipedia is not relieable enough, then what webpage is reliable?

nah, any kinda retard can enter and edit a wiki page. i tend to trust Îðóæèå

YouTube - AK-47: Muzzle Brake and Firing

This is best I could find now.

omg check how high his elbow is! he's gonna hurt in the morning

Oh, this is unrelated but I found some cool video of AK.
YouTube - Instructional video on how to handle AK-47

i counter with my future wife:

but seriously, i doubt they are going to lower the recoil if they'd change to akm. the g3 still has a huge fantasy recoil.

hiberNative wrote: but seriously, i doubt they are going to lower the recoil if they'd change to akm. the g3 still has a huge fantasy recoil.

The G3 recoil is stupid, Ive fired it, and its not by far as bad as it is in PR.