Project Reality Forums

Disclaimers: (I've done some searching, I didn't see ideas that went about making pilots 'cost' the team in the same way or close to it. Please, do post and correct me if I overlooked something.)
(Originally suggested by Startrekern of TG forums who cannot post here directly, but I believed it was a great idea, so I'm posting it here as myself. Here's his post: View Startrekern's post)



The suggestion: Pilots, rather than the vehicles they fly, are worth tickets. The point of this is to encourage more pilots to save themselves than go down with the wreck.

Right now, there is no real incentive to bail out other than the 1 ticket a player saves by bailing, and '0 deaths' on his scoresheet. If the vehicle itself cost very little or no tickets, but the pilot cost the remainder of the amount, it would encourage the pilot to save himself and be rescued when he is in safe territory. The pilot may not always bail; if he's over enemy territory, and it's very unlikely he could be saved without risking others, he could choose to go down with his plane, instead of bailing out. The option, however, would be there for him to take, and would beneficial to the team, if he desires to do so.

Here's an example: A-10 pilot flies about. He eventually gets into a dogfight with the enemy MiG-29. The MiG locks on with a missle, fires, and the A-10 is hit directly. The pilot, however, bails out and survives. The A-10 itself costs no tickets whatsoever. The pilot costs 10 tickets. If the pilot bails out and parachutes to a safe area, and is rescued, the team negates losing 10 tickets. However, the asset is still lost and therefore still feel the pain of the loss, while the enemy team gains CAS superiority.

(Just to make myself clear, this isn't JUST for jet pilots. It's for all pilots; Transport, Attack Helicopters, Fighter jets, and Ground-Attack Jets alike.)

(As for the ticket amount the pilot costs vs the jets ticket cost, that can be worked out later; for now, focus on the idea rather than the ticket amount, but feel free to discuss what you think would be a good amount.)

A few things have to be put in check in regards to this, however, to ensure that it isn't abused or under-utilized:

• Pilot kit only requestable DIRECTLY from the vehicle. Because the pilot kit now costs 10 tickets when lost, it shouldn't be used in the field if at all possible. Since you can request the pilot kit from the vehicle as long as it is alive, even if used, you can request the kit and return it to base if the previous pilot was killed, etc. (If issues arise, it could also be requested from a main flag/a repair station. See * at end of post for issues regarding using main/repair stations as request locations)
• Pilot kits should be separated depending on what vehicle is being used. For jets, the pilot should be as it is now but should cost the team 10 tickets to lose. For helicopters, the pilot should cost the team 5 tickets to lose (this allows Attack Helicopters to not be obscenely high in ticket loss, as well as allow regular helicopter pilots to do the same). Of course, the jet pilot should definitely not be able to fly helicopters, and vice versa. (One issue is that jets that require 2 pilots would now be 20 tickets to lose. See ** at end of post)
• Jet pilots could use a more reliable way of being able to bail out knowing full well that it was in their best interest to do so. Solution posted here.

*Repair stations/Main Flags that are actually outside of the 'main base' should be considered no-no areas. Example: Repair station at muttrah; Main flag of Kashan. If both are implemented, it fixes issues like Kashan's, but if only the repair station is allowed then culprits like muttrah/barracuda etc will arise.
**Two seater jets would now be worth TWICE the tickets of a normal jet. If it cannot be fixed vehicle-specifically, one workaround would be to make single-seat jets worth 5 tickets, two-seater jets worth 0, and then pilots would cost 5 tickets. This would make an A-10 cost 5 tickets and it's pilot cost 5 tickets, but a Su-34 cost 0 tickets and it's pilots together cost 10.

Sounds good, I really like it

....shouldn't the vehicle AND the pilot be worth tickets? =) That way the vehicle is important, as well as the pilot......... then again with their new "damage" system.. shouldn't that be semi-fixed?

LithiumFox wrote:....shouldn't the vehicle AND the pilot be worth tickets? =) That way the vehicle is important, as well as the pilot......... then again with their new "damage" system.. shouldn't that be semi-fixed?

what i was thinking...

LithiumFox wrote:....shouldn't the vehicle AND the pilot be worth tickets? =) That way the vehicle is important, as well as the pilot......... then again with their new "damage" system.. shouldn't that be semi-fixed?

Not implying that the system has to work out exactly as laid out. Tweaks to tickets and such of course would have to be done to ensure it doesn't cause any adverse effects. Also look at the ** excerpt from my post at the bottom, you'll see that I mention that jets could cost a certain amount of tickets and the pilot would cost the other half of it (though it was used to describe a workaround for the problem, it still stands that it could be done that way)

I've editted the original post, so that readers will know that the ticket numbers are not final or anything. Add your thoughts on the ticket counts, but just remember that the idea is the important part. Do you like the idea? Does anything need to be tweaked? What is your idea for the ticket counts? All of these questions are important for people to answer so I can get feedback!

The vehicle alone is important, though, is it not? Without it, your team will lose an advantage in the field.



In regards to the 'damage system' do you mean how helicopters get disabled? If so, you should also know that this system isn't in place for jets (check the 3rd dot in the checklist).

Well its a good idea, and realistic (IRL pilot worth more than his plane) IF every pilot in PR works as he should.
I dont mean to be very experienced or ace but at least to be responsible to his teammates.

Now when you see a monkey who thinks that he can take out a Mig-29 with his A-10 because he has X-52 pro joystick and he is "one of the best pilots out there" the only thing you dont want is to be forced to save him...

I think the pilot should be woth 60% of the overall tickets lost and the aircraft should be worth the other 40%

Sounded familiar so I searched 'pilot tickets' and found this thread about the same thing: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... g-out.html

I don't like the idea any more than tank drivers/gunners being worth the points instead of the vehicle. The single point for the pilot is enough to encourage a rescue, if they don't care about one ticket they aren't likely to care about 10 tickets.

In my opinion there should either be a long delay or a high ticket loss for a vehicle but both are not needed. With the current delays the points would be more appropriate like so:
Humvee/BRDM/Support truck free.
Non-TOW APC 2 points
TOW equipped/Tank 3 points.

The delay is enough of a penalty is the one part I agree with the main post about.

While the training and experience of the pilot is worth a lot, I'm questioning that the multimillion dollar jet isn't worth any tickets. The other thing is, "ejecting" is unreliable. When I do take a hit, I always try to get out if I can't get home, but more often than not, the jet runs right over me on my way out.

50-50.
if you would remove the ticket penalty for jets, there would be more noobs stealing jets and just crashing them.

it would be more fun if the pilot was more important than the jet for gameplay reasons

though as always n00bs could spoil the party by not attempting to save themselves, instead dying and going off for 20mins for coffee and cake.

But hey! I'd find it a fun side mission to have to rescue a pilot.

Meh, think that it is fine as it is now as random dudes would grab it on muttrah off a heli and cost us all tickets... Find a better system, but yes i like the idea

Oh lol I can see it now. 8 pilots hop in a huey for para mission and then crash.

It's not a bad idea. But saying more pilots will eject or crash land just because of the added ticket loss, isn't very accurate. The people who would eject or crash land in order to save the X number of tickets their death would cost, already do that in order to save the 1 ticket. People who care not about the teams tickets and more about having to wait another 20minutes if they lose their aircraft, will not care no matter how many tickets you make them worth.

The only case where this would encourage realistic actions, would be the teammates going on a pilot recovery mission in order to secure those tickets.

Also, in some of the over populated poorer countries i'm guessing an aircraft like a fighter jet is worth more to their military than the pilot is. Just think about how many people work to keep that jet in the air. I'm not saying the pilot is worth the same as an infantry soldier. But i wouldn't be surprised if in some countries the jet being worth 10 pilots isn't an exaggeration.

I could see smacktards getting the kit and killing themselves over and over to drain tickets.

[quote=""mat552"]While the training and experience of the pilot is worth a lot, I'm questioning that the multimillion dollar jet isn't worth any tickets. The other thing is, "ejecting" is unreliable. When I do take a hit, I always try to get out if I can't get home, but more often than not, the jet runs right over me on my way out.[/quote]

ORIGINAL POST wrote:(As for the ticket amount the pilot costs vs the jets ticket cost, that can be worked out later; for now, focus on the idea rather than the ticket amount, but feel free to discuss what you think would be a good amount.)

Yes, I do agree. Like I said above (from the start of the thread), however, the cost could be determined later, the 0 tickets is a bit of an extreme example.

Also, in regards to ejecting being unreliable, a lot of that is partly due to the fact that when the jet is moving at such a high speed, you die rather instantaneously. With the 'disabling' effect brought to jets, the jet would slow down significantly and allow that kind of ejecting to be at the very least a little more feasible (some things may still have issues in regards to that like the exit point of the jet being about face-level with a large metal wing, but the speed will help a lot in reducing/eliminating damage taking from bailing out, I would hope.

[quote="Elektro""]Meh, think that it is fine as it is now as random dudes would grab it on muttrah off a heli and cost us all tickets... Find a better system, but yes i like the idea[/quote]

The heli currently costs tickets to lose anyway. If more than one got in and tried a crazy helicopter mission, you should be asking why they aren't being reported to an admin for that kind of nonsense, in all honesty. Otherwise, limiting pilot kits would allow a smacktard to grab the kit and not give it to anyone and stop the flight of an asset easily, which would be a bit more of a problem, I think.

Dr2B Rudd wrote:it would be more fun if the pilot was more important than the jet for gameplay reasons

though as always n00bs could spoil the party by not attempting to save themselves, instead dying and going off for 20mins for coffee and cake.

But hey! I'd find it a fun side mission to have to rescue a pilot.

Well, if they don't attempt to save themselves, (and here's the great part) there's no downside to this system in that case; yeah, he could bail out and save his team 10 tickets... if he doesn't, it acts like current air-asset-loss. The incentives and opportunities to bail out just increase the chances that your every day pilot would bail when things get ugly (I certainly would bail if my jet was falling out of the sky as a burning hunk of metal and shrapnel), and try to save my team 10 tickets.

'[EC wrote:DR.NOobFragger;1110602']I could see smacktards getting the kit and killing themselves over and over to drain tickets.

I could see smacktards using AT against air assets too (and have seen it), but the only way for them to get the kit would be to request it from the vehicle/main, which would mean they would likely have to be in eye of an admin or obvious to the rest of the team.

Unfortunately, yes, it's possible, but other forms of griefing exists as well; but if you see a player with some outrageous amount of negative points and a whole bunch of deaths, you've found your culprit, and admins can easily deal with him.

EDIT: Is the suicide button still in PR? I haven't been able to play in a long while but I haven't ever used it so I don't really know if it's there. Otherwise the pilot has no real means to kill himself beside trying to fall off of things and bleed out. Which I guess is a bit of a plus, it would be more tedious for a single guy to kill himself.

Yes, there is a suicide button. But like you said, if one wants to drain tickets, one can just destroy assets and kill teammates - both will get him kicked quite quickly.

Spec_Operator wrote:Yes, there is a suicide button. But like you said, if one wants to drain tickets, one can just destroy assets and kill teammates - both will get him kicked quite quickly.

Okay, I figured as much.

The thing about this system is it tries to give the basic ability to stop the kit being used in a bad way, but just like with other forms of griefing, sometimes an admin needs to step in. An admin can't 'take a kit away' from someone, so making the pilot kits limited could cause a whole new griefing approach where they just take the kit and go hide. These kinds of things cannot be regulated by admins and cause a bit of a loop-hole in the mechanics used to stop smacktardery, but using the less-restricting rules like it can only be requested in main allows admin intervention.

If there's no admin, him using the pilot kit to kill off tickets is just about as bad as running people over in main base repeatedly.

snooggums wrote: I don't like the idea any more than tank drivers/gunners being worth the points instead of the vehicle. The single point for the pilot is enough to encourage a rescue, if they don't care about one ticket they aren't likely to care about 10 tickets.

I disagree, a smart pilot squad will be more likely to go savy on ''suicides'' when it's worth 10 tickets (or more) than if it's just 1 ticket.

I would go even further and suggest 15 tickets loss, to ecourage the rescue of grounded pilots and discourage from using the ''suicide'' button so much.

I like the idea but like Viper5 said like 8 pilots could just jump in and ruin the whole game, so to counter this pilot kit would be limited probably like sniper kit. IMO this would actually help cause im tired of seeing like 7 pilots on muttrah all flying around cause they want to. But still i don't think they would want to go through this trouble just to change how much tickets pilots are and the plane/helo.