Project Reality Forums

Hey!

Is there anything being done to the attack chopper targeting system in the upcoming 0.9?
As it is now it is just a joke.




The point of an air to ground AT missile is to hit ON the tank. With the system as it is now you need to be close and extremely still to be able to hit it. Most times now, the way you kill tankss are by shooting lots of missiles like a shotgun and then at least one of em might hit.

There is no way in PR that you can do a proper attack heli tactic, eg. pop up from behind a hill, shoot a target and hide again. Any armor crew who knows how to use the gun will take out the chopper before the missile is even close to em. The best tactic as it is now is to stay extremely high up.

Also, apache weapon key sideviews, can we have that for this patch? It has been "missing" for like 2-3 patches now.

As for AAs. All these vehicles/weapons work almost/just as good as an AA to take out choppers.
In order, best to worst:

1. AA and BMP3, fire rates of armor piercing will take down attack heli in less than a second and the gun angle can aim at the moon.
2. HAT, except for chinese you can just guide it on the target = one hit kill, they never knew what hit em and you dont have to care about the annoying flares...
3. TANK and APCs, tanks= one shot kill, sabot rounds are fast as hell, if the angle is bad, just lean on a hill or bump.
4. 50.cal with 360 degree angle, takes a few shots but not that many.
5. LMG-kit, now with scope and deployed, you will get lots of hits on a chopper if its standing still, before they can react.

AA loadout/balance on muttrah:
2x hand held, 4x stationary = 6x AA. 6x AA out of 32 players is quite a lot. AA ratio is almost 1 AA per 5 persons LOL. Every AA each covers lets say 800m radius. The actual land area (minus mountains) is like 1/4 of the map=1kmarea. 6x AA can cover all the land area + more...


Is this REALLY, the way its supposed to be?

Viper.Sw wrote:Hey!

Is there anything being done to the attack chopper targeting system in the upcoming 0.9?
As it is now it is just a joke.




The point of an air to ground AT missile is to hit ON the tank. With the system as it is now you need to be close and extremely still to be able to hit it. Most times now, the way you kill tankss are by shooting lots of missiles like a shotgun and then at least one of em might hit.

There is no way in PR that you can do a proper attack heli tactic, eg. pop up from behind a hill, shoot a target and hide again. Any armor crew who knows how to use the gun will take out the chopper before the missile is even close to em. The best tactic as it is now is to stay extremely high up.

Also, apache weapon key sideviews, can we have that for this patch? It has been "missing" for like 2-3 patches now.

As for AAs. All these vehicles/weapons work almost/just as good as an AA to take out choppers.
In order, best to worst:

1. AA and BMP3, fire rates of armor piercing will take down attack heli in less than a second and the gun angle can aim at the moon.
2. HAT, except for chinese you can just guide it on the target = one hit kill, they never knew what hit em and you dont have to care about the annoying flares...
3. TANK and APCs, tanks= one shot kill, sabot rounds are fast as hell, if the angle is bad, just lean on a hill or bump.
4. 50.cal with 360 degree angle, takes a few shots but not that many.
5. LMG-kit, now with scope and deployed, you will get lots of hits on a chopper if its standing still, before they can react.

Is this REALLY, the way its supposed to be?

I agree!

You should try out CA as we are giving them the respect they deserve and trying to make them more realistic and maintain balance.

combinedarms.myfreeforum.org :: Index


The main problems are;

1) No range advantage (hellfire has double the range of a standard tank shell)
2) No stabilisation and tracking (heli has to just hover there like a sitting duck or spam missiles on the move)


When we were playing kashan 32, we were having a laugh in our tank squad because we all agreed that if you want to play kashan you can have 64 (combined arms version), 32 (no air support version) and 16 (infantry version).


They aren´t that bad, but they are far from what they should be.

I don't fully agree, since I don't think there really is a good way to simulate the ability of RL helis to attack on the move with teh BF2 engine. And personally, I can engage on the move as long as its not too fast and the heading is maintained, and the pop up tactic works perfectly with a friendly lasing the target for you.

But the pop up tactic doesnt work ingame for a different reason....you are so low that the tanks can shoot you. This is not the fault of PR, but the specific map. Its too dangerous to stay low in kashan for example. But extremely high altitude is the way to go, then you are only limited by the View distance and can escape when required. As you said.

# AA and BMP3, fire rates of armor piercing will take down attack heli in less than a second and the gun angle can aim at the moon.

less than a second = exaggeration, its very fast. but if a heli was hit by it IRL...I don't think its gonna shrug it off

# HAT, except for chinese you can just guide it on the target = one hit kill, they never knew what hit em and you dont have to care about the annoying flares...

only a problem on Muttrah imo

# TANK and APCs, tanks= one shot kill, sabot rounds are fast as hell, if the angle is bad, just lean on a hill or bump.

tbh I expect a sabot round would kill a heli IRL. The problem is the VD forcing you in to its engagement distance. Combined arms has some ideas on that...but that would need some work imo. (projectiles all have spefic ranges they can travel)

The point of an air to ground AT missile is to hit ON the tank. With the system as it is now you need to be close and extremely still to be able to hit it. Most times now, the way you kill tankss are by shooting lots of missiles like a shotgun and then at least one of em might hit.

the only way this can be made easier is with a lock on box. And that has been deemed overkill. Though I think it would work fine.

What’s wrong with the gun angels?

If a gun shoots at a chopper and it has armor pearcing rounds then why shouldn't it take the chopper down? I sure that if you made the chopper "THE ALL MIGHTY GOD OF ALL THINGS" then you would have everyone in PR making threads about how noob the choppers are. I find it refreshing to make the people using the choppers have skill and teamwork to get kills. None of this point and click and zoom all over the map and unloads tones of rounds on poor little troops. No more base raping!!! yay! More like real life now.

As for the pop, shoot and run method....ummmmm yeah it works. If you fly high in the air then they see you a mile away. If you use the proper terrain following approach then you will find that thy might hear you but by the time they see you pop up (if they do) then its too late. If your not on coms with a gunner you work with all the time then yes it might be a challenge but the attack choppers are a two man team aircraft. Key word TEAM, that means you find a guy who you know and practice with him.

I agree so much!!!!
Everything is true, the attack heli is a joke, even on a training server with those noob AA Crewmen, unless you were very low and moving slowly and not zooming, or not hovering you cant hit a 1000M x 1000M bulding!!

rudy_eila wrote:I agree so much!!!!
Everything is true, the attack heli is a joke, even on a training server with those noob AA Crewmen, unless you were very low and moving slowly and not zooming, or not hovering you cant hit a 1000M x 1000M bulding!!

Wanna bet 90% of the PR players can?

You people are exaggerating, it's not as bad :/

smart_boy00 wrote:What’s wrong with the gun angels?

If a gun shoots at a chopper and it has armor pearcing rounds then why shouldn't it take the chopper down? I sure that if you made the chopper "THE ALL MIGHTY GOD OF ALL THINGS" then you would have everyone in PR making threads about how noob the choppers are. I find it refreshing to make the people using the choppers have skill and teamwork to get kills. None of this point and click and zoom all over the map and unloads tones of rounds on poor little troops. No more base raping!!! yay! More like real life now.

As for the pop, shoot and run method....ummmmm yeah it works. If you fly high in the air then they see you a mile away. If you use the proper terrain following approach then you will find that thy might hear you but by the time they see you pop up (if they do) then its too late. If your not on coms with a gunner you work with all the time then yes it might be a challenge but the attack choppers are a two man team aircraft. Key word TEAM, that means you find a guy who you know and practice with him.

No offence here smart_boy00, but you seem to be one of these ROFLCOPTER dudes...

If you pop ur attack heli up from behind a hill, and there is a tank on the other side, the tank will most likely get u! Not the other way around. This tactic has been proven wrong considering all the good pilots fly very high ingame.
I will explain why tank get you first, even thou u have a good copilot with voip and practice:

1. Tank shell is almost as fast as a pew pew laserbeam in PR, the hellfire will have some travel time giving the tank crew one more second to react or more.
2. The tank will most likely see you first, not the other way around when you fly low. Why is that? Answer is simple: 2x guys with 360 degree view + the bf2 horizon contrast is like a flashing red light on the chopper lol. It is sooo much easier to spot helis compared to ground vehicles.
3. Tank stops very fast to get stable aiming. Chopper takes a while to get to hover steady, especially if you just popped up from behind a hill.

I am not counting in laser targeting here. Thats because an attack heli should be able to target enemies on its own, and the laser target does NOT work well on moving targets.


Considering the ALMIGHTY GOD chopper, there are AAs on the maps. Too many already, just people dont use em that much and especially not together with the armor! eg. kashan got 2x hand held up to 4x stationary AAs and 4x mobile AAs plus 2x jet or planes = 12x AA on same map... THAT IS 12x AA per 32 PLAYERS, how realistic is that ratio 1:3 carries AA!

Im also adding muttrah AA stats to my main post.

Viper.Sw wrote:
I am not counting in laser targeting here. Thats because an attack heli should be able to target enemies on its own, and the laser target does NOT work well on moving targets.

You have to understand that 2 people working together and responding to CAS requests from other team members isn´t considered teamwork unless there is a slow laser of some sort involved.

Attack helicopter = ROFLCOPTER?

Fantastic title, fixed for lameness

Alex6714 wrote:You have to understand that 2 people working together and responding to CAS requests from other team members isn´t considered teamwork unless there is a slow laser of some sort involved.

*SIGH*

Well, the fact that BMPs, AAs, and even tanks are a threat to helicopters isn't unrealistic. What IS unrealistic is that pilots are forced to put themselves into that that intentionally because of the low view distance.

TBH, the AA in game is so useless against any helicopter, it's more of a "O, look, a lock. I'm glad I can flare and hit the bugger/GTFO without being damaged in the slightest and can thus not reprimanded for flying within enemy AA covered space". That's why BMPs are so much better at hitting them.

BTW, Rudd, I'm pretty sure BMPs can tear up a still chopper within a second. Though from the BMP's position it seems longer due to the flight time of the projectiles and therefore overcompensation and saturation of them being fired, from the unsuspecting pilot's view in the helicopter it's not enough time to react to before you're disabled at the very least. Not that I don't like that aspect, since it should be as such.

The only time I've seen attack helicopter's act realistically has been in CA tests, where on Desert Rats with the 2000meter VD, they are soooo vulnerable flying high (especially with effective SAM / Radar), and they are able to mask from 2 km away and operate means that terrain masking now works and is encouraged.

But, until drastic changes such as those come into effect, it will always be the same on PR BF2.

DEV's! Here is your guide on how to improve PR:

CLICK HERE

There must be some way you can work together with these guys, because they really do some stuff much better than the actual PR. I say you should learn from em. Thats what I would do if I was a PR DEV. There is no point in struggling to improve PR bit for bit regarding the good CA parts when they already have the solution for that.

Most of PR is great, but adding the good parts of this add-on into the MOD would be awesome.

Thanks God that DEV Team has real military advisors and doesnt consider as source CNN and Hollywood.

Otherwise PR would be full of "realism".

Viper.Sw wrote:DEV's! Here is your guide on how to improve PR:

CLICK HERE

There must be some way you can work together with these guys, because they really do some stuff much better than the actual PR. I say you should learn from em. Thats what I would do if I was a PR DEV. There is no point in struggling to improve PR bit for bit regarding the good CA parts when they already have the solution for that.

Most of PR is great, but adding the good parts of this add-on into the MOD would be awesome.

The DEVs have a deal with CA, they can use what they want and PR can use whatever CA make.

some of CA is bad, but some of it is awesome.

Viper.Sw wrote:--snip--

I have to say, that's a rather rudely construed remark, just remember that not much from CA has even had a chance to be implemented into PR. Not one thing was really done being tested after 0.85 came out, and to a similar extent 0.86.

PR developpers know, and ARE interested in porting over many aspects of CA, so just hold tight until they finally release a big patch.

Nemus wrote:Thanks God that DEV Team has real military advisors and doesnt consider as source CNN and Hollywood.

Otherwise PR would be full of "realism".

lol? I'm confused, and yet amused at the same time. I take it you're being sarcastic as to the fact that MAs don't hold total influence over decisions as to what goes into PR (such as the pilot kit changes), however the ever prevalent and over used joke refering to instance in BHD not getting into PR also comes to mind, in which case you're being sarcastic in a different sense on your latter comment.

Point is, you're not making your point apparent

Well I was sarcastic...
Because everyone here (including me of course) has a different opinion about realism.
And is funny you know when i see people with youtube, hollywood or CNN as their only contact with military tactics,weapons, helicopters etc IRL giving to DEVs instructions about "how a helicopter fly IRL" or "how a gun fires".

Nemus wrote:Well I was sarcastic...
Because everyone here (including me of course) has a different opinion about realism.
And is funny you know when i see people with youtube, hollywood or CNN as their only contact with military tactics,weapons, helicopters etc IRL giving to DEVs instructions about "how a helicopter fly IRL" or "how a gun fires".

Or teaching RL snipers how to use the sniper kit ingame,

I knew it was sarcastic, I just didn't ( and still don't ) know in which favour the comment was made in relationship with this thread

McLuv wrote:*SIGH*

The only time I've seen attack helicopter's act realistically has been in CA tests, where on Desert Rats with the 2000meter VD, they are soooo vulnerable flying high (especially with effective SAM / Radar), and they are able to mask from 2 km away and operate means that terrain masking now works and is encouraged.

But, until drastic changes such as those come into effect, it will always be the same on PR BF2.

I'm just curious....how many of these tests with 2000m view distance were performed with a full 64 player server and how was the lag?

Im not trying to be rude at all!

PR is best MOD ever and every1 in the community knows it!

The thing is that it feels that it on some patches some things goes downhills (compared to realism). I have seen earlier in radar, attack chopper and AA threads people saying these things CANNOT be added. Obviously they can and are allowed to do so (McLuv post above).

Many in the community probably dont know about the amazing CA stuff thats out there, so no wonder people are curious why we in PR dont have it


Example:

YouTube - PR Combined Arms Gameplay 7YouTube - PR Combined Arms Gameplay 7