Project Reality Forums

Ok, so first of all, I searched "fuel" on the search thing and found a lot of posts. But I believe no one had an idea like mine's...

Taking as a base ARMA2...

Here is what I suggest:

METHOD 1:
-Whenever a vehicle moves, it uses its "sprint bar".
-The sprint bar for APCs (for example) should be enough to go a whole round around Kashan.
-This sprint bar would reload VERY slowly unless there is a vehicle repair station (or fuelling station) dropped by Logistics trucks (maybe a new unique model... a fuel tanker that refuels your vehicle when you are within a certain radius (just as if it was a moving supply crate with a bigger "re-ammo" radius, but with fuel)).
-The sprint bar reloads even QUICKER near the repair station at bases/carriers.
-Choppers should have enough to go, drop a squad across Kashan and refuel.
-Attack choppers should have enough for an attack run (ie. Attack Huey).
-Blackhawks, which could have a camera below for commanders (which I'll suggest in another thread), would last a lot, but would have to be refuled after some time.
-Littlebirds should have enough fuel for some scouting.
-Ground vehicles should have a lot of fuel, but not enough to go around the whole round.
-Insurgent vehicles (hehe) would have very little fuel... or a lot to make it sandbox
-(hardcoded?) depending on the amount of fuel, Bomb Cars would have a bigger blast radius with the bigger sprint bar.
-ADD VEHICLE REPAIR STATION TO FIREBASES!


METHOD 2 (should be easier):
-Timer starts the moment a person enters as a pilot/driver in the vehicle (engine starts), OR when the person drives.
-After some time, the crewman/pilot gets a warning ("you have 5 minutes of fuel left!")
-Refuel (timer reset) at resupply/repair stations after a defined period of time. Maybe logistics trucks or refuel trucks (as stated above) could reset the timer too.



When Sprint Bar is gone/Timer has ended:
GROUND VEHICLES
*The APC/ARMOR driver can't drive (similar to when you have
the wrong kit and tries to pilot/drive the vehicle). The gunner can still
engage, but it's kind of an easy target (if you know what I mean).
OR
*The gunner can't engage. Doesn't make sense, but I don't know,
better more suggestions than less! Driver can drive to a
repair/resupply/refuel station anywhere he wishes (or within another
timer...)

AIR VEHICLES
*The engine "stops" (such as an emergency landing for chopper).
Should be enough to get the people inside safely to the ground.
*Airplanes get into gliding instance (very low engine power, due to
messed up airplane physics at low speeds :cry



This SHOULDN'T be impossible to make. I'm not a DEV, it does seem hard to make something like this working (especially new models for refuel trucks/FOBs repair stations...), but I do believe this would add a LOT to the immersion. This would stop those endless APC "pinned down" state as an infantrymen without a HAT to bring this to a premature ending.
Of course, fuel would have to be very scaled down to it's real life counterparts, due to the limited size (which comes from the limited number of players) of maps.

OBS.: Fuel shouldn't last forever for ground vehicles (which would at SOME point stop it's frag fest at maps like Muttrah), but not so short to make the use of HATs minimal.

Thanks you for reading.
I believe this idea (with these methods) haven't been presented yet.
MODs and DEVs, by doing this thread I'm not trying to increase my post counts (what does this matter anyways?) or only bug you off by resuggesting something for the tenth time. I don't know if this idea is hardcoded or if you guys have already thought of it (honestly, you guys are geniuses).


So cheers everyone, would love to hear everyone's opinion: MODs, DEVs, pilots, drivers, gunners, Squad Leaders and Squad Members, Snipers, Anti-Tank people, commanders, Combat Engineers, Medics...

yeah... but... wouldn't it take like... 2-2 1/2 hours to run out of fuel for most land vehicles? > > arn't those made to last for a good long while ?

LithiumFox wrote:yeah... but... wouldn't it take like... 2-2 1/2 hours to run out of fuel for most land vehicles? > > arn't those made to last for a good long while ?

now here is what I said in the last paragraphs:

Of course, fuel would have to be very scaled down to it's real life counterparts, due to the limited size (which comes from the limited number of players) of maps.

OBS.: Fuel shouldn't last forever for ground vehicles (which would at SOME point stop it's frag fest at maps like Muttrah), but not so short to make the use of HATs minimal.

I know it wouldn't be THAT realistic to have shorter duration fuels. But it doesn't mean that it had to be short too. I think that 30 minutes for APCs and 10/15 minutes (using Method 2/Timer Method) for choppers should be enough, but they could vary from map to map (ex. you don't need as much fuel in Muttrah as you would need in Kashan or Battle for Qinglin).

IRL they are made to last some good time (I believe), but PR is kind of a faster paced Real-Life battle, since the frontlines change VERY quickly in PR (in my experience). So having shorter fuel could do for some interesting twists...

Fuel has been suggested and rejected many times. In fact, one forum member came up with a fuel system using a recoil/ammo system. The concept was deemed unnecessary.

Tirak wrote:Fuel has been suggested and rejected many times. In fact, one forum member came up with a fuel system using a recoil/ammo system. The concept was deemed unnecessary.

I read that. IF I read the same one as you, he suggested a machine gun that fires when you throttle up right?

Well I don't think that would be the best idea, though I don't reject his idea.

Now the "unnecessary" word... I believe that's not the correct word.

I am making this as a balancing structure, giving more chances for infatrymen to survive.
Of course, infantrymen survivability depends on their skills and of theirs SL. But no plan survives to enemy contact.

Anyways this is just an idea. I would love to see bufixes or other stuff before this. I just had this idea while watching Top Chef and playing ARMA 2 before that, so yeah

Fuel is usually an issue in between battles organizing the next one, not during battles. It is assumed that the gear is fueled for the operation.

Its sort of a bad suggestion because planes can fly for thousands of kilometers without stopping. I would think vehicles would have a shorter driving time than irl because of all the weight, but they would still drive for a few hundred KM's before running out. Its just impractical and it would cause more damage than it would help on PR's small maps.

Yeaaaa it takes a long time for a tank to run out of fuel ... normaly you wouldnt run back and forth kashan 10 times or so the map is just not big enough good idea though

Redamare wrote:Yeaaaa it takes a long time for a tank to run out of fuel ... normaly you wouldnt run back and forth kashan 10 times or so the map is just not big enough good idea though

hheehe, the thing is you don't drive around kashan that much (usually a tank gets wasted before a refuel time...).

Cassius wrote:Fuel is usually an issue in between battles organizing the next one, not during battles. It is assumed that the gear is fueled for the operation.

the IDEA behind this fuelling thing is giving infantry a chance to survive!
But well, APCs and Armors DO have ammo, so the fuel might really not be necessary.
Don't take me wrong Cassius, I'm a big fan of your guides!
Just wanted to get some opinions on my different methods...

Thanks for reading this guys, keep the feedback coming!

This is a good idea. But i don't think it should be implemented for ground vehicles. I think its only necesary for aircraft. Then we can get planes and attack heli's not always in the action. I would like to see a fuel system so that fast air pilots actually have to sit on the run way until they are needed otherwise they may b out of fuel when needed. The ground vehicles will end up ditched everywhere when out of fuel if they have a fuel system.

This is a good system but should only be used for aircraft

Looking at your post, i realize that it is a resuggestion. You're actually not coming up with anything new you're just suggesting it. For example this thread is the same thing minus the "these things should have enough fuel for a very generic thing" and direct reference to the sprint bar.

Now I'm not saying your heart isn't in the right place or you didn't think really hard about how to balance fuel requirements vs mission statement, but the fact of the matter is a fuel system for any vehicle has been rejected. Furthermore, while your post looks like it has a lot of information, you're basically saying "Vehicles should have a sprint bar that runs out and stops them, or have a timer that runs out and stops them" the rest is eye candy.

Here is further reasoning I put forward that this suggestion is unnecessary.

I like this idea, although I think many people will reject it.

However, it is downright ridiculous to say that tanks can go for a really long time without needing fuel.

A Toyota Prius Hybrid car can go a long time without needing fuel.
A main battle tank guzzles gas to an extent that would put Al Gore into a coma.

The Abrams can get about a mile a gallon, usually a little more if driving straight.
When tanks are sitting still (and they do this very frequently in PR) they are still using gas. One of the problems encountered in the Gulf War was tank crews wanting to keep their engines on and therefore using up dozens of gallons of gas in a few hours, causing strain on the Coalition supply lines.
This whole aspect of gasoline, which has been a fundamental aspect of (and sometimes the reason for) modern military operations, is completely absent from PR, which is one of, if not the most realistsic military games in the world.

Project Reality needs to have a little more emphasis on the REMFs, (or "Rear Echelon Mother F****rs" in military jargon ) as it is very rare that you see a dedicated transport/logistics squad, even on maps like Kashan.

Unfortunately, I don't think this idea about fuel will be used, but it is certainly very interesting.
And I give you credit for writing that massive post.

I like the idea, helis do rearm very oftes so no fuel system for them and planes, but yes for Ground Vehicles, that would be kinda new for the player and a new expiriance =D

The fuel system, if implemented realistically, would serve no purpose as there would be almost no chance of a vehicle running out of fuel before the round ended.

If fuel were implemented even semi-realistically, it would be kind of silly because ground vehicles as you mention will almost never have to worry about refueling. Fuel for air vehicles, for the most part, won't affect transport helicopters, who run quick missions to drop off infantry and crates, then return to base. They also pose no direct threat to the enemy, so there is not much of a reason to implement fuel in this case, either.

In attack helicopters, such as the huey attack variant, giving it a restricted amount of flight time is only limiting the device even more; it only has 14 rockets, which go very quickly, and after that it is defenseless. Giving it a fuel restriction only means that it can't get around to it's desirable angle of attack (giving it a strict fuel level means that high-altitude diving attacks become impossible. giving it a lenient one means that there is no affect on the aircraft, and no reason to refuel, only rearm).

In dedicated attack helicopters, they often RTB very quickly after taking damage or performing an attack, since they carry only 14 Hellfire missiles, and don't want to be snuck up on by enemy aircraft. Again, limiting the fuel causes the same problems as above; the fuel will only limit the aircraft's ability to attack from different angles or using different techniques, or won't affect it at all.

For jets, it becomes slightly more useful... but at the same time, the way jets are in game they more represent jets flying over a much larger airspace than the space available to ground forces. This would mean that there is likely many opportunities to go to a mid-air fuel station, or due to the small sizes of the map would very minimally affect the jets. If too strict, you limit the aircraft's time in the fight, which would encourage sitting at base until missions are available. However, this also causes the issue that if the fighter is sitting at base, conserving fuel, then he won't be in the air to intercept enemy jets that are attacking ground forces. It then becomes a useless asset, for the most part.

If too strict, it becomes a crippling flaw with the vehicle rather than a reasonable limit to it's power.
If too lenient, it becomes a useless notification of something that no longer matters.


The reason it works well in games like ArmA2 is because it is a full environment rather than an extremely small battle zone; A flight across Kashan desert in a helicopter takes around 2 minutes. A flight across Chernarus in ArmA2 in a helicopter takes a lot longer in comparison, and I believe the helicopters may be faster than PR. Driving? Much, much longer.

It means that you can't just travel across the entire island, which is pretty realistic; You would have to stop sometimes to refuel at a friendly base, which makes it applicable due to the sizes of the terrain as well as the vehicle's speeds.

Sorry all you gas guzzlers but : Resuggestion

Thus lockity locked