Project Reality Forums

Okay, just spent another day playing PR... and I've been playing a while now...

And I have a few quick, simple complaints.... About players.... Not PR. The game itself and the guys who made it are awesome.

Please Note: This is a rant. Take it or leave it. I'm just blowing steam here. THESE IN NO WAY apply only to Project Reality... they pop up elsewhere, this is just the game I was playing when I ran into a crapload today.


1) Bossy commanders:
I listen to commander orders *almost* to a fault. I've been told to build fire bases in completely stupid places and done it because I was ordered to. I've been told to attack bases when defense was obviously needed instead, etc...

But today, I had an awesome experience where my 2 man squad was HOUNDED by the commander and another squad on the tactical gaming server because we did not want to defend a point that had literally the whole team, minus us, at it, after being told to build a firebase across the map and losing our ride back. Us 2, my girlfriend and I, were essentially blamed for the loss for not running back to be slaughtered at the base that everyone else abandoned as well. Hounded by server admins for not following CO orders, and hounded by CO for not following CO orders. As if it would have mattered. Great reason to treat someone rudely, btw.

Think about it this way, guys... if you're the commander of a team of 30 guys, and you have 4 squads of 6, a squad of 2, and a squad of 4... How do you place the blame on the squad of 2 that you dispatched to the far east of the map, when you were the commander of 30 other people who ALSO failed to hold a critical point? Seriously? I know you're butt-hurt because you lost, but, when you took the commander seat, you took responsibility for what happens thereafter, take it like a man, and if you must blame someone, blame a full squad that abandoned your objective long before a 2 man that built you 2 firebases. Jesus.

2) Strict server rules:
...Seriously... language filter? In a game about killing people? Really? Have you guys heard how soldiers talk in the field? No? Youtube it. Watch Motari throw a puppy off of a cliff for fun. Of all the games to have a language rule, this one would be the last that came to mind, but I just watched like 5 people get kicked for language.

We need more people playing this mod. It's an awesome mod. Do you, by some wild stretch of the imagination, think that strict server rules, hounding people, treating new players rudely, etc, will help this game in any way? Really? Lighten. The. Hell. Up.

Bottom line: I can burn you to death with a "Molotov Cocktail", but if I say one of the words that appears in that phrase, I'm out? I understand banning someone if they come in and straight spray profanities non-stop spam-style, but jesus, there are some uptight people running these servers.


3) "Read our forums or quit."
I was told by a wonderfully awesome player today to "read the forums or quit". Guys, I barely have time to come to this forum and post (which I am doing ... pretty much in the time I would have finished playing that very map). I certainly don't have time to go visit every individual BF2 and PR server forum out there and read the LITERALLY 5 pages of "rules" that are updated with individual maps. I'm sorry. I know it's lazy, but, as it stands, I've barely got 90 minutes a day to even try and entertain myself, I don't need to spend 15 minutes of my life, ever, reading about how you believe a game should be played on a website, when you have the ABILITY TO SCROLL GAME RULES IN GAME.

If you have TOO MANY RULES to scroll in game, you have TOO MANY RULES.

About 15 minutes into the first match on a server, I've already forgotten what server I'm playing on. This is because:

4) I play a LOT of other games. I play MMOs, I play vBF2, I play Jedi Academy, I play HL Mods, I play 2142, etc etc etc. If you put a gun to my head, I couldn't name the last 2 servers I played on. No offense, I appreciate the servers, but, I don't sit around after I close PR thinking "man, I should go to the forums for that server I just joined"... nor do I look at the server list in-game, alt-tab, and start googling for server rules and forums. If you think "most" people do, you are sadly mistaken.



If you want to reply to this, it's fine, but, please, the only kind of reply I really care about would be one that was something like this:

Come play on this server: Servername, we don't do/promote any of that ****. We just play the game as the game is, allow people to talk and act casually, we encourage teamplay, and you don't need to read our forums to play.

That would make my day.

Fat chance.

Flame on.
-JX

Pretty much 100% agreement from me here.

And about the servers; I would suggest the Virginia USA PR or the Chicago Hardcore Insurgency.
Friendly players, good ping for people like you and me (since the servers are based in the States) admins are always on, and there are only a few rules, but they make sense (no tk'ing, no stealing assets, etc).

But to be honest, most PR servers are pretty good.
It's rare to encounter really terrible servers, but it can happen, as your story can attest.

Those servers he mentioned are good ones. Honestly, ever server I have tried has been pretty good. I haven't run in to too many problems. When I find I am playing with someone in a squad I can't stand, I usually just change squads. I haven't really played too many games with commanders, so not real sure about that.

I do thoroughly enjoy playing with someone who thinks he is General Patton telling me precisely how to live my life and when to breathe. All in all though, most everybody I've encountered has been great.

Agreed.

1. I don't see many commanders in PR nor do I lead squads often so I can't speak from experience but I believe you have a good point.

2. Pretty much exactly how I feel on the issue, I find it utterly ridiculous at times.

3. Exactly, it's completely unrealistic to expect most people to visit a server's website and read all the rules before playing on it.

4. Kind of the same point as 3 but I support it.

It's a very involved game and things can be delicate at times (eg. relying on competent pilots to get off a carrier and into battle), but some people still take it way too seriously.

I just try to ignore them and have a good time anyway, but sometimes it's still demoralizing. There's not much fun in playing a teamwork orientated game when you think your team is a bunch of pricks.

Some of commanders and squad leaders are indeed total fanatics when it comes to leading, they might be good at making ppl do what they want them to do, but they are super crappy leaders because they dont understand a thing about gameplay, they might give totaly idiotic orders and want to control players every single footstep without knowing in what kind of situation those players are in the field and if players dont do exactly as they say, they get flamed, and if they do as their leader says, the get killed / lose a vehicle / lose a flag / build firebase to 1km away from flags etc etc...

When im commander, im more like sharing information between squads, telling transporters to transport squad that needs to move fast, telling where enemy + their spawnpoint is, reporting enemy firebases and vehicles. Most importantly i make players realise what is going wrong atm (for example half of the team are camping in useles location and are we cant get flags by doing so) Like when all squads are on 1 same flag, i ask from everyone why is that, and answer is that they didnt realise the situation but thanks to me telling it to them, they start moving.

And when being squadleader, i tell only an area where we going to be, and what sort of tactic we are going to use, ("make sure you stay in flag area" "ok everyone head to north and find their firebase location" "dont shoot untill they have spotted us" "shoot at will" "search for supply crate, take AT and kill that APC") Amount of micromanagement depends totaly on how much fact information i have about the area where my squad is, im not going to play other players character for them like some leaders are, because leaders just simply cant see or hear exactly same things as all squad members do, im just giving guidelines how to act, instead of step by step orders.

Unfortunately some ppl thinks that good leader plays other players characters for them, without seeing/hearing same information as they do. Infact commanding became impossible when commander camera was removed, how on earth you are going to give accurate and reasonable orders if you as commander dont have a damn clue whats happening in the front line. UAV helps with this litle bit now.

Id say you should look for what the server names are, some servers strive to have a high level of teamwork, and cooperation between the squads and the commander, like TG. Which imo is really awesome!

But there are of course lots of servers that has a little less amount of "control" in them, and more of a free game set of rules.

But im going to tell you one thing, playing on a server with Admins and with a proper command structure is alot better, than playing a game where most of the team is asset whoring, and noone is capping any flags.

If you want to have a great game and be part of the server society, so to speak, without joining their "website", download PR mumble 0.5, and join RT or TG. Not only does it increase the gameplay excperience, but it does so in a organic way, there isnt like a large force trying to tell you what to do. You can just talk to everyone else on mumble on that server. Which is nice.

But i can understand your point, usually going commander is quite tiering, since you can see the terrain infront of you, and the commander only has his map. And some squadleaders are just looking for a good time, their not interested into being GI joe, SIR YES SIR, all the time. But as much is i hate to say it, id say vanilla is a place where you can excperience that. If the larger portion of the server is upholding some sort of great disipline and is following orders like headless chickens, they usually think that is having a good time, and you should let them have it, since that is the status qou, and therefor you should follow orders too.

Anyway, as you said, its the players who makes this game what it is, not the devs so to speak, we our selfs choose wheater or not to be retards... Lets hope we all see the light in the end.

2) Strict server rules:
...Seriously... language filter? In a game about killing people? Really?

they pay for the server, its courtesy to accept their rules within reason

(reason being the PR server license agreement)

yeah, i guess that snort dandelions. Not as bad as when you have to deal with other sqs not doing any thing. Now in Pr its not so much "hey lets all work together when we spawn" its now"hey when we spawn were gonna go some were completely opposite of the rest of the team, will be the heros of the day when there getting slaughtered , it will surly work " sadly nearly all sqs are doing it resulting in a map that looks like ants were lit on fire and there scattering. there is hardley any team work beyond the 6 man squad as there should be. A 6 man sq is not a army(new Rambo affect)

The other night i had to deal with some sql that hardly spoke english, and he wanted to split the sq into 2 sections but stay in the same sq. well that's all fine and dandy but it took 30 minutes to coordinate a attack on mosc on muttra, when I KNEW it was empty cause i cleared it out , but had to come running back from there to sql cuase he wanted to regroup out side of it (not close enough to cap), i kept telling him, its empty , but no we sat in the out side perimeter looking at it like it was loaded with marines.........it was........empty................ I dont think people are getting the right feel for the game, its like they come in all hoped up to kill/win/kill/kill/kill/win just to end up hiding in a bush and come out at the end of the round, its like playing paintball with newbies. The extent people are playing at is not at what the game was made out to be, like mine markers, there markers for mines,duh, but when i get HOUNDED by a ADMIN for placing mines.....its just ......."RAGE"- THEN WHY DO I HAVE ONE, to look at it.? People themselves are dumbing down the game and its really paradien.

Dr2B Rudd wrote:they pay for the server, its courtesy to accept their rules within reason

I find the "They pay"-reason always such a lame excuse.

By not following the commander orders. You in turn screwed his master plan (if he had one). Just because you think it's a silly idea. Does not mean that it is a silly plan.

NyteMyre wrote:I find the "They pay"-reason always such a lame excuse.

Its not an excuse, its an explanation. Go play on another server if you dont like it. You dont go breaking down clubhouse doors in real life demanding things to be radically changed.

Many native English speakers find harsh language offensive. This is different from many European languages where swearing is almost part of everyday speech.

id say swearing is pretty everyday part of native english speaking areas ^_^

well it is in UK anyway

CareBear wrote:id say swearing is pretty everyday part of native english speaking areas ^_^

its everywhere

By not following the commander orders. You in turn screwed his master plan (if he had one). Just because you think it's a silly idea. Does not mean that it is a silly plan.

at the same time its not a genius plan just because commander thinks so, most of commanders i seen tend to only give orders without listening to squads, small example we're holding a compound on mutrah, commander orders us to build fb and sends 2 huyes to us, while i'm telling that its to hot and our squad is likely to be wiped out in short time

When im commander, im more like sharing information between squads

imo in 90% games its the way to go, somebody called commander as more like coordinator than commander

JKJudgeX wrote: 2) Strict server rules:
...Seriously... language filter? In a game about killing people? Really? Have you guys heard how soldiers talk in the field?
-JX

Yeah, I hear ya, but as a matter of fact I have heard how soldiers talk, for ten years, and I have heard those explicatives both in combat and out of it. And I have to tell you, I've not heard the type of language there like I see in the games online. But I was in during the 70's 71 thru 80 and back then I didn't take my wife to dinner at a local restaurant and listen to the guy behind us talk about his sexual exploits the night before with his brother's wife either, course there I was given the privilege of getting arrested for breaking his nose for disrespecting my wife like that, I guess in game you can't do that so we BAN! not kick but BAN!

I guess I got to get with the program huh? Lighten up a little huh?

So this is our solution, say what ever you want in voip it's your squad, those who don't want to hear it will leave, but, when you put it in the faces of those who are just tired of it, well then your intruding on our rights , and your outta here.

sparks50 wrote:Many native English speakers find harsh language offensive. This is different from many European languages where swearing is almost part of everyday speech.

Your T***ing C***ing what?! That's a proper load of B****** Go to the North of England/Scotland/Ireland/ pretty much anywhere in the British Isles actually really to be fair to the Southerners (everyone else is worse though ) and you'll find that's very much not the case, especially down the pub...

Gunner wrote:I didn't take my wife to dinner at a local restaurant and listen to the guy behind us talk about his sexual exploits the night before with his brother's wife either, course there I was given the privilege of getting arrested for breaking his nose for disrespecting my wife like that

Maybe I'm reading that wrong but what's some random conversation in a dinner got to do with respecting your wife?

That would seem as if you're taking things personally when they're not actually directed at you.

Gunner wrote:I guess I got to get with the program huh? Lighten up a little huh?

Take it into consideration.

Gunner wrote:So this is our solution, say what ever you want in voip it's your squad, those who don't want to hear it will leave, but, when you put it in the faces of those who are just tired of it, well then your intruding on our rights , and your outta here.

Keeping chat to the squad is fair enough if the team doesn't want/need to hear it, that's just common courtesy. But I don't see how other people's language infringes on your rights. Kicking people for talking how they want is more like infringing their rights IMO.

I'm sorry for you JKJudgeX encountering that commander style - but yes that's TG - i'd recommend GIB server in the USA also to go for you

and besides the "they pay for it" explanation, there's also a "they care for it" one - having polite players not using Bad words makes it more fun to play and to admin

Almost all PR servers have nearly the same rules applied

Except for the past couple of days since I installed the new patch, I hadn't played in several months. I love this game, but to be honest, the other players are what made me leave. I have had far too many instances like this on my own, games filled with a bunch of numbnuts who are probably not even old enough to have hair on their sacks yet but they seem to act like some Super Duper Paratrooper in game.

Yes, I know it's not always "fun" being commander. Your interaction during the game is pretty limited to a top-down point-click interface and the stress of trying to get everyone to go where you need them to doesn't always work. There have been some improvements that will hopefully attract more players to take the commander roles, but I sincerely hope that those taking the position will have some experience first playing the game as squad leaders and squad members.

If someone is a commander and feels that a certain squad isn't following their orders without good cause, then fine. Just don't provide that squad with any support. Advise all air crews and armor crews to not provide transport or supply runs for that squad. Advise all other squad leaders to not provide support or aid for the renegade squad, if it falls outside of their own initial orders. In time, the squad that doesn't want to listen to orders will see that they better get with the program or be left in the dust.

Commanders also need to realize that they can't see everything going on around each squad. If a squad doesn't want to follow a specific order, instead of immediately barking at them about it, ask them why. Maybe they have a large enemy force between them and the objective and they are taking more time to find a new route. Maybe the objective you are trying to assign to them is beyond their capabilities based on their squad size, weapon assignments, ammunition supplies, skill level, etc. Try to work with them first, and if after that it's obvious they just don't want to follow orders for any reason, then so be it. You're better off devoting your time to other squads than wasting the time yelling at the one not listening.

And for those squad leaders or members who don't want to follow orders, same goes for you. Your commander usually has a lot more overall intelligence and oversight of the map than you do. They are also in communication with all other squads, so chances are they have more updated information about the battlefield than you can see on your map. If your commander is issuing an order that you can't do, tell him so and explain why. Try to work out a solution to the problem. If you feel your commander is trying to issue orders that don't make sense, and I'm talking serious and obviously FUBAR orders like go attack the enemy main base, then try to talk to them about it. If talking doesn't work or they keep issuing bad orders, then you're on your own. Maybe you'll get a better commander next round.


I have seen several servers that have some pretty strict rules, but most have rules that are within reason. No cursing? Yeah, OK, I can try that. But an immediate ban for one or two minor infractions, that's a little uncalled for. If I get TK'd 4 times in a row by the same person due to their incompetence, and I bark out "Thanks a lot, A**hole!" in global chat, I wouldn't expect a ban for that. That doesn't mean I'm going to sit there for the rest of the round talking trash about that person either.

Some servers do have some pretty retarded rules, but those tend to be the servers with low populations or a small group of dedicated players such as a clan. "No base raping except on Friday or Monday", "No disrespecting admins who use hacks", or "First squad with the name Sniper gets dibs on the good kits" are examples of rules that I will just laugh at and ignore. If you have rules that are just plain stupid, don't expect people to follow them. But then again, feel free to kick who ever you want. And players, remember that it is their server, so if they want to kick you because they don't like your name, then tough sh*t, it's their server. Until you start paying the bill, your play time there is up to them. I suggest finding a server that has a large and diverse group of players, is busy at all hours, and has limited rules that make sense.

Unfortunately, because this is a game and it's based on a core game that is played by some seriously f**king retarded little kids, we're always going to have problems with players. Personally, I'm not too worried about it anymore. I'll be in Iraq kicking down doors in a few months, and even though a lot of these new soldiers are pansies, at least they have earned enough respect from putting on a real uniform. And then I'll be free to talk how I want, when I want, and get to fire off plenty of rounds.

Snazz wrote:Maybe I'm reading that wrong but what's some random conversation in a dinner got to do with respecting your wife?

That would seem as if you're taking things personally when they're not actually directed at you.

So then in Australia if you take your wife to dinner and some good Ole boys come in and sit down and start talking loudly enough for at least six tables to hear about their sexual exploits using about every kind of profanity one could think of is the norm? Man I need to move I must live in some stuff shirted backwoods nation.

Of course this happened 20 years ago, perhaps things have changed.

So what your telling me is I can go to any server, and type in any form of sexual remark I want, to anyone on the server I want, and you find this acceptable?

How about racial remarks, why should they be any different, if I can make any sexual remark about anyone on the server regardless of gender, then can I make any remark on any server I want regardless of Race?

I mean why not? If we can talk about what we would like to do to the women on the servers, why not the pygmies? Shoot let's just throw morals out the window, so does this also apply to our homes, I mean if anyone should be allowed to come to our servers and say anything they want, why can't they come into our homes and say anything they want, should they be required to show us some respect in our homes? Should we even be allowed to remove them from our homes? Perhaps kicking them from our living room for inappropriate behavior is way off coarse?

Do we have an age differentiation here? I mean we all know there are kids on these servers as young as 10, perhaps even younger, I stupidly thought I was to set an example for the younger generation, of course they know about sexual innuendos than I ever will but hey, I'm 55 and way behind the times. But I guess it's ok to use this type of language in front of them? Why not on the street then, or in the local restaurant when they may be having dinner with their parents, what right do the parents have to object, oh I know, who got there first, well old man we were here having our conversation before you and your family got here, so if you don't like it leave.

If I sound argumentative I apologize I don't mean to be, just trying to understand this new morality and make a few points. This has been argued time and time again. We don't like to hear or see men make comments that are of an extreme sexual nature in front of our wives. I guess we made mistakes in getting our wives interested in this FPS stuff in the first place.

It's difficult when you get old and you see a new set of rules enter into life. I try real hard to fit in and figure ok, where is the boundary that just got crossed and make intelligent decisions.

It doesn't always work out.

Oddsodz wrote:By not following the commander orders. You in turn screwed his master plan (if he had one). Just because you think it's a silly idea. Does not mean that it is a silly plan.

That's the final point where the game breaks from the real world.

IRL in war time military service you got very strict regulations how to carry out orders. But even then there is exceptions, when you may refuse an order, and even situations when you ought to do so.

These exceptions - probably not for great surprise - are examined very thoroughly case by case at court-martial, which suppose to be independent from all prejudice. Anyone surely can understand that this would be mission impossible to implement in a game - to have jurisdiction without responsibilities as one example.

So there isn't any proper way to distinguish a numbnut commander from a genius one and act accordingly. I guess the best way is just vote with your feet.