Project Reality Forums

With such major over hyped disappointments as CM's OFP DR and IW MW2 (as far as online play goes anyway) , it looks like PR's only serious competition to realsitic online play is ArmA2 now and I don't think BI's ArmA development team is much bigger.

You have managed to capture an excellent mix of realism and exciting game play with this mod. ArmA2 can be more realistic , true , but as in real life , it can be long stretches of sheer boredom mixed with a few minutes of hair raising excitement.

And all of this was done as a labour of love rather than being profit motivated. Amazing!!

Can you imagine the cash flow's all the disappointed DR and MM2 would generate , not to mention the existing PR base..and the game could be reasonably priced to boot. Seriously I'm surprised EA or DICE haven't approached you with a buy out offer (or maybe they have ) as Valve did with the DoD developers.

Maybe you should try raising some venture capital and taking this mainstream.

Damn fine job.

I think the main reason for that is cuz other game devs wanna make money of thier games (and you cant blame'm) so they make their games playable by ppl who arint serious about realisim. also they "are" makin PR2 which i highly dought will be made...no offence lol

Seriously I'm surprised EA or DICE haven't approached you with a buy out offer (or maybe they have ) as Valve did with the DoD developers.

EA reserve all rights to publicly released content as per the EA terms and conditions.

They can take PR's work whenever they want.

ma21212 wrote: also they "are" makin PR2 which i highly dought will be made...no offence lol

O' really????

Dr2B Rudd wrote:EA reserve all rights to publicly released content as per the EA terms and conditions.

They can take PR's work whenever they want.

O' really????


Thanks Beerhunter... we are ertainly thinking in terms of some kind of future.. We have a dev team full of too many damn fine people to not take that next step and produce some marketable..

Dr2B Rudd wrote:EA reserve all rights to publicly released content as per the EA terms and conditions.

They can take PR's work whenever they want.

PR I thought was a non-profit organization. So technically any models they make they keep. Any changes are all PR Reserved?


I'm no lawyer, but that's what I thought

Project Reality is awesome, but despite everybody is saying I really dont play MW 2 for the multiplayer, I play it more for the cinematic, blockbuster movie singleplayer experience. When it comes to multiplayer, PROJECT REALITY SHOWS ALL WHO'S THEIR DADDY!!!

I love PR and I would love for the mod to get funding, but I doubt it's ever going to grow outside of the small niche market that it is today and will probably stay volunteer. 2-3k gamers is not that much. I'd hardly call it a gold mine. The Close Combat series has an equal amount of supporters (probably more actually) and they can't get off the ground even though they have full time programmers and artists ready to go. Gaming is going in a completely different direction right now and Arma2 sales vs OFP: Dragon Rising sales only go to show that this direction is not realism gaming

Today it's still a mod, built on top of the infrastructure created by the BF2 game. While what they've done so far is really complex (between creating models and writing some crazy python scripts to modify game rules), implementing a game engine (C4 engine) from the ground up is hugely more complicated. Besides creating *all* of their own artwork, they'll need at least 2 expert C++ programmers to build all of the game rules among other things (AI, development tools, plugins or extensions to the game engine, etc). Everything would need to be created from scratch, including all of the animations, sounds, models/textures, special effects, etc.

The BF2 dev team had 14 full time programmers on staff and had 7 part-time programmers. They did create a game engine from scratch though, but not all of that went into the game engine. They also had 16 or so people working together on art. Assuming a lot of these guys worked on this full-time, these are big shoes to fill. A lot of people dish on the BF2 Refactor Engine, but it really is a great game engine.

I know I sound like a pessimist. I'm just saying it's going to be a huge challenge, but I'm more than confident that the PR team can handle it. I write large scale web software for a living. As soon as PR will need some work in the web application realm I'll be the first knocking on their door to volunteer.

Artnez.com wrote:I love PR and I would love for the mod to get funding, but I doubt it's ever going to grow outside of the small niche market that it is today and will probably stay volunteer. 2-3k gamers is not that much. I'd hardly call it a gold mine.

Interesting that you say that, considering there are over 36,000 registered PR members on this website...

And I'm sure that's not even half the people.
I wouldn't be suprised if there are over 70,000 people who have downloaded and played Project Reality.
And that's not a small number.

Artnez.com wrote:2-3k gamers is not that much.

Orly?

You would need to up that estimate by some 19/20x at least to get around the actual number of people who play or have played PR since the last release.

Which makes it somewhat more financially viable than you suggest. The development team are fully aware that it is a huge undertaking to create a game from the ground up, and are keeping a level head about it im sure. For more info read this thread, particularly [R-DEV]Eggman's posts.

difference betwen downloaded at release and regular players. difference between players downloading the mod to try it and people buying something.

http://www.game-monitor.com/search.php? ... er=players

"Players: 711 / 7,449 (9.54%) Average: 5.39 / 56.43"

Jigsaw wrote:Orly?

You would need to up that estimate by some 19/20x at least to get around the actual number of people who play or have played PR since the last release.

Which makes it somewhat more financially viable than you suggest. The development team are fully aware that it is a huge undertaking to create a game from the ground up, and are keeping a level head about it im sure. For more info read this thread, particularly [R-DEV]Eggman's posts.

A lot of that has to do with it being a free mod and that it was piggy backed on the success of BF2. As soon as you ask gamers to shell out 50$ for a game, that changes. Even in a good economy, most gamers won't blindly buy a game without giving it a try or reading others reviews.

Consider these numbers... let's assume over the past 3 years 20,000 people bought this game for $50. That's $1,000,000. Now let's assume that PR has 10 full time devs, each costing 70k for payroll. This is a very rough estimate of course and the number would go up or down, depending on amount of devs, etc (it would likely be higher in real life). Over a 3 year term, that would have cost $2,100,00. Just the salaries alone would be double the sales. Even if you assume the salaries to be much lower on average and even if the salaries for a 3 year period were $500,000 (very unlikely, that's like $160,000/yr for payroll and benefits), the distribution and marketing costs alone and other budgetary concerns would blow it out of the water. For this game to be commercially viable it needs to sell 20,000 in one week.

So IMHO the only way this will happen is if a distributor picks this game up, gives a fat(ish) budget and markets the hell out of this game as a military simulation... and that will never happen if you can place IEDs in urban middle eastern cities, know what I mean?

I think the best case scenario is this mod will slingshot some of these devs into a well deserved career in the gaming industry and they could humble us with creating the mod in their free time. I would gladly pay a monthly fee to play this game and support continuous development, as I'm sure a lot of other people in this community would do as well. If PR2 gets sold as a standalone product with no monthly fees, I'd gladly pay $100+ for it.

Not disputing any of that, just saying that your estimate of the number of people who play PR was a very very long way off

You can sum the supposedly "low player count" to .. "lack of promotion". After all these years there are still plenty of players in the OFP and ArmA forums that haven't heard of PR so lord only knows what the market potential is outside of these two communities.

I know $250,000 for a full page add in a gamer magazine for 1 month is out of the question but with the proper backing, there are ways and means of promoting at minimal cost to the developers.

Just a case of having a marketable product that has the potential to offer a return on investment.As a BF2 mod it doesn't but further down the road on the new engine they are looking at (or have a license for..not sure) there is certainly potential here.

And lets not forget Red Orchestra or DoD shall we? These were both mods until they went retail and were relatively successful.I think Artnez is underestimating the market potential and over estimating the costs.

Wilkinson wrote: I'm no lawyer, but that's what I thought

Im a lawyer and I think your gay.

Edit: User was warned for "Inappropriate Post Content". I mean WTH ?

superhunty123 wrote:Im a lawyer and I think your gay.

Then you'll know that Intellectual Property rights supersede a generic corporate EULA DiCE or EA have no claim to any original asset created by the PR team, or indeed to any individual asset created by an individual or group that is not covered by their copyright.

PS) You're not a solicitor. You wouldn't call yourself a lawyer and you'd have a decent grasp of the English language.

looks like infinity ward is working on their "PR Killer" LOOK OUT PEOPLE!

Link to Proof

[R-DEV]Gaz wrote:Then you'll know that Intellectual Property rights supersede a generic corporate EULA DiCE or EA have no claim to any original asset created by the PR team, or indeed to any individual asset created by an individual or group that is not covered by their copyright.

PS) You're not a solicitor. You wouldn't call yourself a lawyer and you'd have a decent grasp of the English language.

are you sure? because I would have thought that by modding under teh terms and conditions EA has set, you are giving up your intellectual rights to all publicly released material.

(though material not yet released is still protected)

Though I doubt EA would be willing to make a court case out of it due to costs.

superhunty123 wrote:Im a lawyer and I think your gay.

The dummer the Trolls get, the more stupid they make themselves look. Nice one guy


Yeah, EA Can't claim rights on a model not created internally of EA Games. If anything was submitted into the build, EA Games still can't take claim because they are not the original files the Game Creators made, but the public. That's why we paid X amount of dollars for the game. The files are ours

Otherwise we'd all be Bf2's ******* sitting in the back geting slapped around

superhunty123 wrote:Im a lawyer and I think your gay.

Edit: User was warned for "Inappropriate Post Content". I mean WTH ?

His gay? His gay what? You think his gay is/does what? You can't just leave us in this suspense, you need to finish your sentence.

Hey, DR wasn't that bad!