Project Reality Forums

What the hell is going on in the PC gaming industry? Am I the only one that thinks corporate interest going ruin our favorite franchises? I'm seriously blown away by what I see.

First, Modern Warfare 2. They take away dedicated servers?! No command console?! This is a franchise that started on the PC and now they're treating the PC like some liability? They're dumbing down the game in every way possible, but still rising the price. The campaign (from what I heard) is ridiculously short and the MP gaming is restricted to some matchmaking system. What made COD4 fun for me (and most people I know) is picking a few servers they enjoy playing and enjoying the game their own way. What about the zombie mod for COD4? That was so much fun and really extended the re-playability of the game.

Second, Fallout 3. I'm not sure if any of you have played Fallout 1 or 2. I did. The Fallout games are my top 2 favorite games of all time. The story was huge, the dark humor was hilarious and the weapons kicked ***. Those games were just huge. Then Fallout 3 is released. They completely screwed the look and feel of the Fallout world. They dumbed down the difficulty level of the game completely -- the only difficulty was in the combat. No puzzles, no complicated quests. Ugh. Then, to top it all off, the amount of content was so little (in comparison to the previous series) that when the game is over -- it's over. Wow.

Third, Civilization 4. The gameplay has definitely moved forward from Civilization 2 (the best Civ of all time of course!). Sid Meier has publicly announced, though, that he wants to make the Civ games more "kid friendly" because he now has daughters or something. All sense of seriousness was taken out of the game and now all of the characters, animations, and general look/feel look like the Sims. Once again, the game gets dumbed down to be easier for the generic consumer. While there are technically more features, they hold virtually no challenges and are for the most part cosmetic. The AI hasn't advanced in the slightest since Civ 2 and it shows.

Fourth, Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising. I knew this game was going to suck from day one of its announcement so I'm not surprised that it does. I may seem like a cynic, but the circumstances behind their release were just plain fubar. Instead of holding true to the things that made Operation Flashpoint great they... surprise, surprise... dumbed things down for the mass consumer so they could sell more copies on release.

Some would argue I need to STFU and just embrace change, but this doesn't seem like change to me. Every franchise that I've known and enjoyed for the years that I've been playing games is getting rehashed into a dumbed down version of itself. Marketing departments then use hype to get as many sales as possible on release... then the game is forgotten, along with the franchise that I've loved so much. Am I taking this too seriously? Perhaps. On the other hand, this is my hobby. Some people are fanatics about sports, some are fanatics about cars... I love gaming.

It just sucks to see the foundations of such successful franchises being destroyed for short term monetary gain. Fallout 1/2 was an absolute hit. Even my wife (who knows nothing about gaming) heard how awesome it was. With Fallout 3, a few people think it's "cool" and some really like it for the first month or two. In a few more months it's going to be forgotten completely as yet another game in a batch of role playing games. The same goes for Civilization and, now, Call of Duty.

I won't let sales numbers and game of the year awards sway my opinion either. Most of the stuff is hype. Each and every one of the games I listed above put the majority of effort into visual presentation and the various "thrill" moments scripted into the game. On a fundamental level, the games are stupidly simple. If it wasn't for successes and breakthroughs of the original games they are based on, they would have never gotten as far as they did.

I, for one, would rather donate to PR than dump money into games that will only last me 1 month (especially those that consider PC a liability). So this month I've donated $100 to PR. I will celebrate PR 1.0 with another such donation.

Thank you devs for your work. You're exercising the same passion that made the above mentioned franchises so great. Despite your limited resources, you've been able to create a game that has had a loyal following for years. That beats 95% of games on the market.

ArmA 2 is probably the only game that didn't dumb down like you mentioned. It's quite a sad situation. I would also much rather donate than buy anything else.

nice post!

I'd say: let them work just for casual players (the hype nowadays), soon they'll learn why they're called "casual'...

Fighter wrote:ArmA 2 is probably the only game that didn't dumb down like you mentioned. It's quite a sad situation. I would also much rather donate than buy anything else.

Agreed and the reason for this is that the developers of Arma (Bohemia Interactive) were the original developers of Operation Flashpoint. Codemasters, were the publishers of Operation Flashpoint. The two companies had some drama and ended up going their own separate ways. Then a legal fight began for rights to Operation Flashpoint. Thankfully, Bohemia Interactive got to keep rights to the code (the game itself in other words), while Codemasters got to keep rights to the name "Operation Flashpoint". So Bohemia Interactive just rebranded the name to "Armed Assault" and "Arma" and continued developing the Operation Flashpoint engine.

Codemasters tried to capitalize on Operation Flashpoint name that they had rights to and developed a so-so shooter using their own engine. It wasn't powerful enough to compete with the original Operation Flashpoint engine and not enough of a breakthrough to compete with the arcade shooters out today. Gamespot hasn't even reviewed it yet and the general consensus by gamers is around a 7/10 score. They got what they deserved imho.

EDIT: It's important to also point out that Bohemia Interactive is coming from a unique perspective. Most game studios have the publicly available game as their only source of revenue. Armed Assault is by no means a popular mainstream game, so Bohemia wouldn't survive if it wasn't for their alternate source of revenue -- the VBS engine. VBS is hugely more complicated version of the Armed Assault which is used as a training simulator for armed forces around the world. It's a true simulator and has thousands of more man hours put into it than standard Arma. Thus the price tag for a single license is $1-2k last I checked.

What's funny, is that Modern Warfare 2 has only been out a couple of days and has already been hacked to provide access to the console. Modders have also added a capability to play on custom servers, allowing near-limitless mods, which are being made as we speak. Leaning was also modded back into the game, and if things go according to plan a crude server browser will be ready for download by tomorrow.

However, I totally agree with you on every point, and I find that companies like IW and Codemasters are contributing to the ACTUAL death of PC gaming. PC Gaming can only die by it's own hands. IW has just made the first step toward console-only gaming, IMO.

I am not alone! thank the dark gods for that.

Ever since RB6 Vegas came out I have been crying because that was the day that commercial tactical shooters died and instead became arcady dumbed down washed out, fogged up and specular bloomy graphics kind of games.

I hope we can keep PR2 on the right track and hopefully won't have to bend to the will of the distributor. Like PR1 is now, uncompromising - us running the show and making it the way we want a good game to be.

I have to get a job for next semester.

If I get some extra cash, I'll pony up a 100 @ 1.0 as well.

Artnez, You just spawned the revolution.

[R-DEV]Z-trooper wrote:I am not alone! thank the dark gods for that.

Ever since RB6 Vegas came out I have been crying because that was the day that commercial tactical shooters died and instead became arcady dumbed down washed out, fogged up and specular bloomy graphics kind of games.

I hope we can keep PR2 on the right track and hopefully won't have to bend to the will of the distributor. Like PR1 is now, uncompromising - us running the show and making it the way we want a good game to be.

Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear was my favorite first person shooter in that time. I played it endlessly. They broke so many barriers with that game, especially for tactical shooters. Ghost Recon took it to the next level with more refined squad based gameplay and some great visuals. I still remember Ghost Recon being one of the first games that implemented a "camera shake" when an explosion happens near the player. It was so cool. The way I see it, Rainbow Six: Raven Shield was the last true Rainbow Six game in the series.

It's pretty astounding how so many games we've mentioned so far were so awesome in their innovation. We had so much variety back then.

Artnez wrote:Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear was my favorite first person shooter in that time. I played it endlessly. They broke so many barriers with that game, especially for tactical shooters. Ghost Recon took it to the next level with more refined squad based gameplay and some great visuals. I still remember Ghost Recon being one of the first games that implemented a "camera shake" when an explosion happens near the player. It was so cool. The way I see it, Rainbow Six: Raven Shield was the last true Rainbow Six game in the series.

It's pretty astounding how so many games we've mentioned so far were so awesome in their innovation. We had so much variety back then.

I remember, a long long time ago, when I first played Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear (my first rainbow six game). It was a Windows 98 Compaq I believe. Well, at that time, the game ran in like, 2 or 3 FPS. Me and my brother (around 9 and 12 years old) played it like it was THE game. We finished the whole game.

Then I go to play it 6 years later. Magically, wow, the game is so FAST! I can't even aim with those many FPS!

I just miss the good ol' days (if I'm allowed to say that, I'm only 15 hehe) where games were truly fun. Now, unfortunately, most games needs hours to be enjoyable.

PR is in those long hour games. Hours that I don't have time to play (or when I play, I'm normally skipping something important). Well, actually, I played around 30 mins today and had an awesome round! I mean, I got in the final hour of the game (probably, I had to leave before the end to have dinner). North city (Muttrah City) fell to the americans (I am MEC). I deceide, then, to make my own squad. Guess what. In those half an hour, I turned a one man squad into a 5 men squad (server full?). I took down a lot of americans, like one that was epipenning one guy as my Squad Mate covered the back entrance. Another one, I see a guy throwing patches on the ground. BAM! Then I kill a sniper, in CQB! Well, that was cool. Gotta go!

Cheers!

acemantura wrote:I have to get a job for next semester.

If I get some extra cash, I'll pony up a 100 @ 1.0 as well.

Artnez, You just spawned the revolution.

I definitely agree with you. As soon as I finish my college studies and get a job, my regular monthly donation amount will increase. I will also try to donate a special amount for the 1.0 release (starting to save the money already). Project Reality is absolutely the best and I am also very proud to be a member of the PR community.
In my opinion, none of the other PC games come even close to the amazing Project Reality.

I agree completely, the Battlefield franchise has followed the same trend.

It makes me really appreciate PR and independent Dev teams.

If im able to get my job all set up, waiting for my interview I will donate at 1.0

great post.. I feel the same away about the industry and its part of what keeps me interested in PR...

Fallout3 I dont even want to talk about... sooooo much potentia...i even started modding for it... but it was too painful and disapointing...

then Empire Total war comes marching along (Total war is bar none my favourite recent franchise...ive owned them all)

Empires is by far...the worst Total war to be released.. nearly unplayable ...even with mods...really really sad..

Well...honestly... if you guys keep donating.. we will keep building PR1 and PR2 as long as we can..

Well people are buying those games, so they want to play them. Good news are, that kinda game gets boring and if you get a different game its still that kinda game. We dont need many games. Arma II PR and OFP2 is plenty.
Also seen as the people you play with on those games are more important than the game, the community usually picks a "champion" game that most people will then buy who want to be part of it and they also stick with it a long time. Not much money to be done there.

Also I admit to having enjoyed playing one of the call of duty games, so did you and you and you. If you did not play a wargame before its awesome, you have to spend some time on the rails untill you whish for more liberty I guess.
Also i do not see how the battlefield series was ever different from what it is today.

Artnez wrote:Some would argue I need to STFU and just embrace change, but this doesn't seem like change to me. Every franchise that I've known and enjoyed for the years that I've been playing games is getting rehashed into a dumbed down version of itself. Marketing departments then use hype to get as many sales as possible on release... then the game is forgotten, along with the franchise that I've loved so much. Am I taking this too seriously? Perhaps. On the other hand, this is my hobby. Some people are fanatics about sports, some are fanatics about cars... I love gaming.

I have had the same opinion about much of the gaming industry for years now. I've been playing computer games since 1986, back when we were using monochrome monitors and less than 128kb RAM. Yeah, I'm an old-school gamer. I got my kicks as a kid staying up late playing games like M1 Tank Platoon, F19 Stealth Fighter, Gunship, SEAL Team, Police Quest, etc. Back then games were awesome, even with their limited graphics and technology.

Unfortunately, a lot of the developers lately have been slacking on the military games that I grew up to love. Parents are worried about violence and gore in a PC game even though they let their 12-y/o's watch the SAW movies like it was nothing. This has caused the ESRB to constantly become more and more strict on its ratings. Games now don't want to include anything violent for fears that they might get a rating higher than "Teen".

Fighter wrote:ArmA 2 is probably the only game that didn't dumb down like you mentioned. It's quite a sad situation. I would also much rather donate than buy anything else.

I have heard mixed reviews of ArmA 2. I actually haven't even played the original ArmA, even though I was an OFP addict. From what I have seen though, it unfortunately looks like BIS is not implementing a lot of their own new content, and is relying on the community to fill in for them. At least they have kept their software open enough to allow more modification than any other game I've seen.

Artnez wrote:t's important to also point out that Bohemia Interactive is coming from a unique perspective. Most game studios have the publicly available game as their only source of revenue. Armed Assault is by no means a popular mainstream game, so Bohemia wouldn't survive if it wasn't for their alternate source of revenue -- the VBS engine. VBS is hugely more complicated version of the Armed Assault which is used as a training simulator for armed forces around the world. It's a true simulator and has thousands of more man hours put into it than standard Arma. Thus the price tag for a single license is $1-2k last I checked.

The VBS and VBS2 software systems were designed using the base ArmA engine, but as you noted they have been changed drastically from the version you see in the game world. They stripped a lot of the "gaming" features out, and even removed a lot of the original vehicles/units to make room for custom modules or suites suited to the individual users.

I've done quite a bit of work with both VBS 1 and 2, and one of the key elements of that software is that its use isn't limited to just the military. We have developed software for many government and local sources, ranging from fire departments to public schools. There is almost no limit to the uses of the VBS system, and the price of the VBS2 VTK is well worth it for those who need it.

And if anyone is interested, my old team even updated the Artillery module for VBS2. VBS2 Fires

Snazz wrote:I agree completely, the Battlefield franchise has followed the same trend.

I am not supposed to make negative comments about the BF2 developers or their software, but I have to agree that I don't like their direction of change. The new BF series are getting worse and worse, aimed more at console gaming than the PC. I fear that in just a few more years, their primary games will be developed for those still wearing diapers.

[R-CON]creepin wrote:SWAT 4

that was the answer, beautiful game that should've deserved a lot more attention..

I still have SWAT 4 and the "Syndicate" expansion installed on my PC, but never play it anymore. The good thing with SWAT 3 CQB was the ability for making new mods, maps, weapons, etc. While I have seen a mod or two for SWAT 4, they are very rare and limited in what they offer. I like a lot of the improved features in SWAT 4 compared to SWAT 3, but the game just lacks the replayability that I prefer. Therefore, the game will probably continue to collect dust like so many other games. When I get bored and feel nostalgic I might load it up again.


I have a lot of respect for the PR development team. They took a so-so game and turned it into a very enjoyable and replayable game that fills the gap between the normal FPS and the elite sims such as VBS. While I might not agree with every aspect of PR, I have to accept the fact that the majority of the community playing are not soldiers themselves. At times it's a challenge for me to get used to "civvy" gaming, but I still find it more enjoyable than anything else out there. I expect to be deployed to Iraq in the next few months, so anything that PR is currently lacking I will get to play with overseas. There are some things that a game just can't replace, and I really miss the smell of gunpowder and CLP.

If you expect PC game developers to create realistic games, you're living on the wrong planet. While it sucks major balls that the realism market is gone, it shouldn't be surprising. Politically, it's not particularly popular to realistically depict warfare. Since Vietnam, control of TV footage and in-person reporting on war has increased (at least in the US), videogames are just a product of the larger trend.


I'm certainly with you: I would much rather donate to PR than buy a new game.

Empires is by far...the worst Total war to be released.. nearly unplayable ...even with mods...really really sad..

have to agree, and teh special edition stuff was incredibly overpriced. So much good stuff in that game though, forced to drown underwater by the bad.

I'd rather donate to PR, and I have, with some money, and also with alot of time spent mapping and as part of multiiple communities.

Artnez wrote:I, for one, would rather donate to PR than dump money into games that will only last me 1 month (especially those that consider PC a liability). So this month I've donated $100 to PR. I will celebrate PR 1.0 with another such donation.

Thank you devs for your work. You're exercising the same passion that made the above mentioned franchises so great. Despite your limited resources, you've been able to create a game that has had a loyal following for years. That beats 95% of games on the market.

wow cheers dude! that's a hell of a lot of money to go just towards a donation, much appropriated

Fighter wrote:ArmA 2 is probably the only game that didn't dumb down like you mentioned. It's quite a sad situation. I would also much rather donate than buy anything else.

probably not dumbed down no, but ArmA2 still has little to no improvements on the engine, network code etc and still has the same basic flaws as ArmA1. From what I've seen ArmA2 is just ArmA1 repolished and rebranded... At least they aint dumbed it down so to speak but they dont appear to be doing much to fix the real problems with the game.

[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:that's a hell of a lot of money to go just towards a donation

Except for when its a donation for something as epic and purely awesome as PR.