Project Reality Forums

Hey guys and gals,

I was just thinking about all the milsim games out there, and what can be done in the future. No, this is not a "suggestion" thread. This is a reflextion thread on various milsim games and the like.... It would be appreciated to have feedback from the general forum public as to expand my (as well as others) realm of knowledge when it comes to finding the great balance in milsim games that makes it both realistic and, of course, fun.

***If you want to skip the long winded section, please go down to the stars to get the main scope of this paragraph without the explanations***.

I have played many shooters, as I am sure most of the players here have.
Here is the list of shooters (not all of them are milsim btw)
1. Call of Duty
2. Medal of Honor
3. Call of Duty 2
4. Medal of Honor: Frontlines
5. Delta Force 1
6. Delta Force 2
7. Battlefield 1942
8. Battlefield: Vietnam
9. Battlefield 2
10. Battlefield 2142
11. Battlefield: Bad Company
12. Call of Duty 3
13. Call of Duty 4
14. Call of Duty: World at War
15. Call of Duty: MW2
16. Operation Flashpoint 2
17. Arma I
18. Arma II
19. Project Reality
20. Metal Gear Solid 1-4 (RPG/Shooter)
21. Others that I cant think of right now (great game, huh? )

Anyway, the question I want to ask is, what aspects (tangibles or intangibles) make a great milsim game.

In the interest of PR, i would like to congratulate all the DEVs and Testers for their continued support of the game. I would like to say though, that PR is not perfect (but what game is?) and would like to just make a couple points.

1. I would really like if unbalancing occured. Not as in unequal team sizes, but rather one force was clearly supieor. IRL, complete or asymmetrical balance does not occur. A team must win through tactics, strategy, and skill to overcome the enemy. I felt like PR v.6 - .7 did a great job of this. I believe that so much "asymetrical balancing" has taken away from the authenticity. Now before some of you go off and say "its not fun because one team will steam roll". That scenario is entirely possible. But teams get steamrolled with balancing. I believe that some much "balancing" has been made that the game has now become much more vanilla. I think that victory over a much more powerful foe is a lot more fun than winning a fare fight. Thats just my opinion. It seems that every game I mentioned has to have balancing, so why not be unique and give one team a lot of hardware, and see what developes (on AAS, not INS).

2. So why did I mention all those games up there you might ask? Well, this comes to the title of my script here. The quest for the perfect milsim game. Heres where PR sores above the rest and has many-a-accolade to go with it. PR is revolutionary in that it finally makes a milsim game easy to play for all (thats why RPs should stay in btw). PR is also revolutionary in its ability to make teams work together (as a former tank driver, i loved this aspect. Because of balancing, the tank has gone the way of the Dodo). PR aslo includes an extremely easy-to-use interface (thanks to EA and the PR modding team).

So what would make the ulimate game? Lets look at the shooters of today and find out....

***I believe the best milsim game will incorporate some key issues:***
1. It will allow for easy use for all w.o the spam (bunny hopping, spam fire, ect...)
2. It will encourage teamplay on a grandscale.
3. It will make use of unbalancing
4. The physics engine will be much more important than graphics.
5. Command structure needs to be implemented much more aggresively.
6. Unique units will be avaible
7. A limited "custom class" system (A hybrid between PRs "fixed class" and COD "create a class".
8. More vehicle emphasis w.o losing sight of INF (Most of all games now go INF only [for online anyway])
9. Be able to use a progressive weather/time mechanic
10. Make better use of camoflauge.
11. A more in-depth medic system
12. A more streamed-lined building system

So basically, mix BF2 with Delta Force 2 and COD, and what do you get.... You get PR + some goodies..

Anyway, that would be my idea of a perfect milsim game.
Whats yours?

Thanks for reading and have a Merry Christmas

perfect mil sim ? PR with Arma ballistic and weapon handling.

Perfect milsim would be an bugfree arma to me, that can support 100+ players had a mandatory training course where you must acquire licenses to partecipate/use assets and has some kind of respawn integrated.

Also you listed a shyteload of shooters dressed up in military colors, those aint military simulations. Call of duty/medal of honor are basically heavily interactive movies, which I have enjoyed myself.

Speakin of, if you did not play it, give Vietcong a chance.

Cassius wrote: give Vietcong a chance.

the first or second one?

I loved the demo of the first...but the full game of 2 sucked

Hmm, maybe PR for BC2

And have only 32 players?

Virtual Battle Space - Home

It's about as good as it can get right now, as far as technology goes. But it's not really a "game", and the price tag will keep casual gamers from using it.

BIS is taking some of the tech from VBS2 and adding it into ArmA2, but because of the bugs and other issues in ArmA2 I think it'll take a while before that game is more widely accepted.

You forgot the Leetness that is counterstr1ke Source

NyteMyre wrote:the first or second one?

I loved the demo of the first...but the full game of 2 sucked

QFT NyteMyre! Fist Alpha, some great memories right there, never got the full game though... and the sequel I only played half-way through before I went apeshit, it'd totally lost the atmosphere

America's Army is somewhat a milsim as well, especially the training courses in the old versions... The SF training, escape and evade, the medic traning... and the hour long lectures followed by tests, hehe.

Also, Joint Operations or Delta Force Hacked Xtreme anyone?

'[R-DEV wrote:Ninja2dan;1198791']Virtual Battle Space - Home

It's about as good as it can get right now, as far as technology goes. But it's not really a "game", and the price tag will keep casual gamers from using it.

BIS is taking some of the tech from VBS2 and adding it into ArmA2, but because of the bugs and other issues in ArmA2 I think it'll take a while before that game is more widely accepted.

I have tried VBS1 core package. However, when it comes to goodies / $, I would go for Operation Flashpoint modified with WAR GAMES LEAGUE, pimped up by CoC Unified Artillery, Coc Enemystack, DAC, TOP1 and OPERA1. I think it is the best military simulation You can get for so little money.. the only thing that I really miss from VBS1 is the coherent graphics on all models.

Armed Assault with ACE mod is a fine thing, too. Personally, however, I never could get the great Operation Flashpoint Feeling on that one.

I wonder why no one ever tried to make a Project Reality type of Gameplay for Operation Flashpoint WGL..

On the end, however, the Project Reality Feeling is something I never got with any game so far. There were moments full of action, coloured smoke and fireworks that really reminded me of Apocalypse Now.

The modders did a marvelous job with PR.

wut? No Rainbow Six? Rogue Spear was teh awesomesauce online. Damnit, we should get some people together and play that again.

LOOK HOW AWESOME IT IS:


srsly

wuschel wrote:I have tried VBS1 core package. However, when it comes to goodies / $, I would go for Operation Flashpoint modified with WAR GAMES LEAGUE, pimped up by CoC Unified Artillery, Coc Enemystack, DAC, TOP1 and OPERA1. I think it is the best military simulation You can get for so little money.. the only thing that I really miss from VBS1 is the coherent graphics on all models.

Armed Assault with ACE mod is a fine thing, too. Personally, however, I never could get the great Operation Flashpoint Feeling on that one.

If you enjoyed the CoC Unified Artillery, you would have liked what we did with it later on. The same core team from CoC that made the UA scripts are those that went on to make the Artillery Module for VBS1. This system has been updated for VBS2, now known as VBS2 Fires.

VBS 2 Fires

Because VBS2 no longer uses individual modules like VBS1 did, and due to a lot of newer technology, they did a major update and overhaul. The new Fires system is by far the most realistic and advanced artillery simulation software in the world, and is currently in use by several militaries. I wish we could have had something similar completed for OFP back then, but by the time most of us were really getting the good stuff going, half the addon community left OFP in order to work on VBS. I had hoped some of it would have made it into ArmA later on, but few have done work there so far.


I am hoping that in the future, BIS will take a lot more from VBS2 and port it into ArmA2. So much of that technology is able to be ported, and a lot of useful stuff is not classified. Unfortunately, it looks like BIS is slacking when it comes to producing a serious gaming product free of bugs and glitches. VBS2 is the most realistic and enjoyable software I've used to date, but I miss the public gaming communities that it can't offer.


And I have heard rumors about someone making a PR-like mod for ArmA...

Tartantyco wrote:wut? No Rainbow Six? Rogue Spear was teh awesomesauce online. Damnit, we should get some people together and play that again.

I can't get that one to work on Win XP. I have so many of the good old games, but most won't work with the new O/S. I have a DOS emulator that works on the classics like SEAL Team and a bunch of the old Microprose games, but some of the "newer" stuff like Delta Force 2 and Rogue Spear just don't want to run on my system. How are you getting it to work on yours?

Tartantyco wrote:wut? No Rainbow Six? Rogue Spear was teh awesomesauce online. Damnit, we should get some people together and play that again.



srsly

i LOVE rogue spear. i played RS for years hosting a game online. at the end of the game sessions, a lot times i would set the game to pistols only, with the only extra gear available set to smoke/stun grenades and extra ammo. those rounds were freaking awesome!

I remember years ago playing Rogue Spear and Raven Shield on my XP desktop, I'm not entirely sure why you'd be having problems at all.

Rogue Spear Vista fix(Don't know if it works with XP, it should)

Install Rogue Spear
Patch to 2.05(Found here)
Download this zip file and put eax.dll in the main Rogue Spear directory.
Play

(More detailed instructions about expansions, mods, etc, located in zip file textpad)

Hello Ninja,

[R-DEV]Ninja2dan wrote:If you enjoyed the CoC Unified Artillery, you would have liked what we did with it later on. The same core team from CoC that made the UA scripts are those that went on to make the Artillery Module for VBS1. This system has been updated for VBS2, now known as VBS2 Fires.

I understand that You have been a part of the modding team then. Good for PR to have developers of the old guard type on board. No wonder PR took such a specific course.

Yes, I liked the scripted heavy fireworks. A lot. Of course I had a look on the VBS recources You have mentioned, and indeed they are "mouth-watering". Many of the things in VBS2 are great to have - however, as You said it, the price is in no way acceptible for an average computer simulation consumer.

'[R-DEV wrote:Ninja2dan;1198851']
[...]
I wish we could have had something similar completed for OFP back then, but by the time most of us were really getting the good stuff going, half the addon community left OFP in order to work on VBS. I had hoped some of it would have made it into ArmA later on, but few have done work there so far.

True. While one can easily fill an doctoral dissertation on how to modify OPF, many things could have been polished to the very end. I wonder why the left for VBS. Money? They should have known that the fan base would be much smaller, eventhough it would be a slightly better system to work on.[/QUOTE]

[R-DEV]Ninja2dan wrote: I am hoping that in the future, BIS will take a lot more from VBS2 and port it into ArmA2. So much of that technology is able to be ported, and a lot of useful stuff is not classified. Unfortunately, it looks like BIS is slacking when it comes to producing a serious gaming product free of bugs and glitches. VBS2 is the most realistic and enjoyable software I've used to date, but I miss the public gaming communities that it can't offer.

It must be either the lack of human recources or the lack of business perspective that stops BIS from doing that. I wonder how big a potential market for a VBS 2 lite would be - probably not big enough, or someone would have already done that.

[R-DEV]Ninja2dan wrote: And I have heard rumors about someone making a PR-like mod for ArmA...

Which one? Is it official already?

I do wonder, however, why no one tried to make a PR like mod for OPF. After all, there is even a Battlefield mod that simulates the gameplay of battlefield..
CTI was a great thing to have, but it could have been tweaked more towards a conflict simulaition than a real time strategy game with Bob the Builder.


Cheers,

wuschel