Project Reality Forums

>>> IMPORTANT, READ ME <<< - Below will be my most recent revision/suggestion of this idea based upon the input of others for quick reference. The original post can be found below the up-to-date suggestion:

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To date then this is my idea:

Health/Bleed System

80-100% HP = No bleeding. Not healable. (Battle wounded/scarred).
60-79% HP = Bleeding, 1 bandage to stop bleeding. Medic bag will heal to 79%
40-59% HP = Bleeding, 2 bandages to stop bleeding. Medic bag will heal to 59%
20-39% HP = Bleeding, 3 bandages to stop bleeding. Medic bag will heal to 39%
-19% HP = Bleeding, cannot stop bleeding. Medic bag will heal to 19%, but bleeding will continue. Severe visual impairment & slowness.

Dead means DEAD.

Epipen --> Adrenaline Shot

No longer able to revive fallen troops, the epipen becomes an adrenaline shot which temporarily nulifies pain, resulting in temporary removal of the visual impairment and slowness of movement of troops with -19% HP allowing them to have a better chance to run to the medievac vehicle.

New Static

Base medic bay - Heals troops to a max of 80% health, no bleeding.

Medievac Vehicles (Chopper/Road vehicle)

It's been suggested that these vehicles prevent bleeding whilst transporting troops to base; I'm not sure how feasible this is, and personally I'd rather see continuous bleeding so there is more urgency in getting people to base. It could be exploited otherwise, to say, stop bleeding whilst a squad restocks bandages.

Possibly make this medic-only drivable (not sure how this would work with 'squad kit limitations' or medievac choppers; maybe make a 'Medievac' kit that can both drive and fly only those 2 vehicle types)?

Definately mark the vehicles and only allow space for like, the drive/pilot and 1 or 2 injured people at a time to stop it being used as troop transport.

If it CAN be stopped as troop transport, perhaps make it so there's penalty issued for shooting/destroying the vehicle?

Considerations:

1.) I've suggested limiting the epipen to -19% HP troops to prevent any 'booster' effects being applied to relatived healthy troops.

2.) Medic Bay only heals to 80% non-bleed as you shouldn't go to 100% after being shot (same goes for medic bag).

3.) No FOB medic field tent as suggested, as you'll get better R&R at base, rather than in a beacon of activity; not the best place to seek treatment! FOB's still have importance due to their spawning / weapon / area denial capabilities.

4.) I appreciate the mods are very busy, and mostly adopt an attitude (and quite rightly so!) of 'if you want it, you make it'; I'll admit that I can't do any of the above, but also this is just a suggestion as per the forum name, I'm not requesting it be done, only that it be taken into consideration.

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ORIGINAL POST:

Now this really is a brain fart that I've just had having read this:

ciper wrote:They should drop the medic entirely. There's no system where you're impeded by being shot, you just have a premature death once you hit 0 hp. A medic shouldn't be able to make you "like new", at best , they should stop your bleeding.

Someone else made a point that revive should be removed, as it's unlikely to happen in the field after being pinged.

How would the medic play if it could no longer revive, and its health bag (and ALL field dressings) didn't recover health but simply stopped the bleed tick?

I.E.

100% HP soldier gets pinged and is down to 65% HP and bleeding at 1% every X seconds... Applying a bandage will stop the bleeding but not recover HP, making the troop easier to kill but still able to perform semi-effectively without running around screaming for a medic.

With this system, a stage process could be implimented in which different %'s of bleeding require additional bandages to stop bleeding.

For instance:

80-100% HP = No bleeding
60-79% HP = Bleeding, 1 bandage to stop bleeding. Not healable by medic bag.
40-59% HP = Bleeding, 2 bandages to stop bleeding. Not healable by medic bag.
20-39% HP = Bleeding, 3 bandages to stop bleeding. Not healable by medic bag.
-19% HP = Bleeding, only healable by medic bag. Not healable by bandages.

Just throwing it out there, massive stinky brain fart in the wind.

The ability to heal some one to one 100% is the representation of them being taken off the line sent back to the aid station. you are allowed to do that because it just logistically impossible to implement some thing like that ingame

So the ability to hell people is really just a fare compromise between realism and game play.

On the contrary, I think gameplay would be enhanced (i.e. making people more safety conscious/value tickets more) if the ability to heal was removed.

Or perhaps health can be healed by medic bags up to the top of it's current bracket (but bandies must be used to prevent further bleeding).

For instance, if you get shot to 45% HP, you would apply 2 bandages to stop the bleeding, and a medic could heal you up to 59% HP.

In exchange for this, -19% HP would not be able to stop the bleeding; a medic could keep topping you up but you'll not stop the bleeding unless:

A medic tent was made at base (+ medievac vehicle, only driveable by medics?), where the ability to heal back up to 100% was made, removing the healing ability from the vehicle resupply dump? (or maybe to make it more gritty and harsh, the max the tent will heal you to, is a non-bleeding state of 80% HP?)

This suggested is one by far the best I've heard.

Very well done.

I like also the idea that if you go back to main, you'll be able to recover 100% in a "medic" barrack.

Another suggestion that will go hand in hand with this is to add a Medic evac such as an armored vehicle or such with a red cross on it. This vehicle would pick up a soldier and stop its bleeding say at no less than 20% hp and once at main base, soldier would recuperate 100% at medic barracks.

Also an idea...

Why do I see a new placeable, the "Medic tent/bunker" at the FoB? That would make FoB's worth defending even more.

Giving the APC's the ability to stop bleeding while inside it would increase their value to the team and make them act more as transports.

Giving LB & Hueys that ability to stop bleeding would simulate medivacs too.

The use of the Epipen could simply be a simulation of getting the soldiers to move into the transport, giving a vital stimulant to get them up as we cannot pick them up.

I am not sure I like the OP concept fully but am willing to test it if it should come to that. New ideas always takes a bit of getting used to. I doubt the players are willing to spend the time going back to base to be honest. It would certainly slow down the gameplay a lot, not that that is necessarily a bad thing.

To date then this is my idea:

Health/Bleed System

80-100% HP = No bleeding. Not healable. (Battle wounded/scarred).
60-79% HP = Bleeding, 1 bandage to stop bleeding. Medic bag will heal to 79%
40-59% HP = Bleeding, 2 bandages to stop bleeding. Medic bag will heal to 59%
20-39% HP = Bleeding, 3 bandages to stop bleeding. Medic bag will heal to 39%
-19% HP = Bleeding, cannot stop bleeding. Medic bag will heal to 19%, but bleeding will continue. Severe visual impairment & slowness.

Dead means DEAD.

Epipen --> Adrenaline Shot

No longer able to revive fallen troops, the epipen becomes an adrenaline shot which temporarily nulifies pain, resulting in temporary removal of the visual impairment and slowness of movement of troops with -19% HP allowing them to have a better chance to run to the medievac vehicle.

New Static

Base medic bay - Heals troops to a max of 80% health, no bleeding.

Medievac Vehicles (Chopper/Road vehicle)

It's been suggested that these vehicles prevent bleeding whilst transporting troops to base; I'm not sure how feasible this is, and personally I'd rather see continuous bleeding so there is more urgency in getting people to base. It could be exploited otherwise, to say, stop bleeding whilst a squad restocks bandages.

Possibly make this medic-only drivable (not sure how this would work with 'squad kit limitations' or medievac choppers; maybe make a 'Medievac' kit that can both drive and fly only those 2 vehicle types)?

Definately mark the vehicles and only allow space for like, the drive/pilot and 1 or 2 injured people at a time to stop it being used as troop transport.

If it CAN be stopped as troop transport, perhaps make it so there's penalty issued for shooting/destroying the vehicle?

Considerations:

1.) I've suggested limiting the epipen to -19% HP troops to prevent any 'booster' effects being applied to relatived healthy troops.

2.) Medic Bay only heals to 80% non-bleed as you shouldn't go to 100% after being shot (same goes for medic bag).

3.) No FOB medic field tent as suggested, as you'll get better R&R at base, rather than in a beacon of activity; not the best place to seek treatment! FOB's still have importance due to their spawning / weapon / area denial capabilities.

4.) I appreciate the mods are very busy, and mostly adopt an attitude (and quite rightly so!) of 'if you want it, you make it'; I'll admit that I can't do any of the above, but also this is just a suggestion as per the forum name, I'm not requesting it be done, only that it be taken into consideration.

Interesting... Got my seal of approve.

Woops I don't have any

Anyways! this is a pretty good idea, perhaps a tweak here or there...?

This + norallies = slow gameplay... however even more tacticool...

Hey I really like this idea but as said before at base there should be a aid station that can bring you back to 100%. In real life if you are wounded and brought back to base there is no way your going back out, unlike most movies portray. If you are hit a corpsman or medic will take you out of the fight (even in the front). Having brought back to 100% life can simulate this (a combatant being taken out of the fight and replaced) and not to mention you should get all your ammo back (the combatant replacing the wounded guy would not take his weapon, he would have his own)... Maybe if you go to an aid station you re-spawn in front of it full health and max ammo and stuff without any kill penalties...

also the whole medic and corpsman taking you out of the fight too goes the same as in a battlefield if you are wounded (i am not sure for other forces but I speak for US, but I am sure other forces do the same) your fellow marines/soldiers/sailors/airmen will immediately call for a medevac and get you to safety... So if your wounded and a medevac LAV comes to pick you up you should re-spawn at base just as if you went to the aid station at base because naturally it would take you to an aid station... But these LAVs can get hit and destroyed so if it is hit b4 it gets back to a certain point at base then your dead and the medevac has failed maybe a helo can do this too not all medevacs are by ground vehicles...

Also on the contrary to many beliefs insurgents do have doctors helping them maybe if they get back to base they do the same thing? or something different... any ideas here?

I know these implements wouldn't come out for a while if the devs did go with these ideas (which the whole medic bag thing sounds so much better than the system out now) but those are just my suggestions/ 2 cents maybe someone can rebuffer mine and build up on mine....



any takes?

Hey USMCMIDN,

Thanks for your input; I'm not putting you down at all but below are just my 'counters' to your suggestions:

USMCMIDN wrote:Hey I really like this idea but as said before at base there should be a aid station that can bring you back to 100%.

I think if you get hit, max you can go back to at base is 80% just so that freshly spawned troops are 'fresher' to the field that someone who has taken a bullet to the ***.

USMCMIDN wrote:and not to mention you should get all your ammo back

Didn't suggest this myself to prevent any exploitation; the ammo resupply dump (vehicle repair station) would be nearby, anyway. Afterall it's a medic station, not an ammo store.

USMCMIDN wrote:Maybe if you go to an aid station you re-spawn in front of it

I think it's important to simulate the time taken to heal, even if it's only a shot period.

USMCMIDN wrote:So if your wounded and a medevac LAV comes to pick you up you should re-spawn at base just as if you went to the aid station at base because naturally it would take you to an aid station... But these LAVs can get hit and destroyed so if it is hit b4 it gets back to a certain point at base then your dead

Again I think the transport element is important; it would act as any other vehicle in which you're physically transported to base. If you get blown up, you're dead.

I like the idea of having to use patches to get back to 80% health this would make getting shot something that would make you weaker till you die. What I do not like is having to go all the way back to your base to get fully healed. This would just bring game play to a crawl and would be extremely frustrating. Also the ability to revive should be kept but every time you get revived you have lower health.

Nimise, I imagine that would be a coding nightmare. You'#d have to code various levels of soldiers depending on the number of times revived and the max applicable health.

Also the suggestion is to make bandages stop bleeding, rather than healing you; means medics still have value in terms of topping up your HP with their goodies, but soldiers aren't completely useless in that their bandages will stop a bleed (where as ATM a bleed will not stop unless you're above X% HP)

No, for this to be viable, I think there has to be deployable medic tents at FOBs. The main base can sometimes be a LONG!(!!!!) way away on maps and getting there may be difficult or impossible.

Yep, that's the idea Startrekern - If you can't get your team back to base, and the enemy is closing in, you're dead. A fact of warfare, I'm sure?

I think FOB medic tents aren't viable because FOBs attract fire power; they're not ideal for R&R; and if they were to be added I'd only suggest they heal 1/2 the amount as the main base station... But then you could argue they make medics redundant out on the field if fighting nearby a medic station, as the station could heal you to say 50% whilst a medic could only heal you up to the top of your bracket (19%, 39%) for example.

While I understand the wish for realism, the truth is, you aren't going to be able to be perfectly realistic.

With anything in PR.

Ever.



Therefore, Medic stations should heal you to the full 80% and would give FOBs another reason to be important, even on top of the .874d changes.

I appreciate you won't get full realism, but you can certainly push the game engine, and the teamwork capabilities of the PR players to their limits =]

This is good though, good healthy debate.

Your massive stinky brain fart in the wind hasn't taken the multiple discussions about healing capabilities in BF2 into account.

From what I've heard from reliable Devs & coders, BF2 will not allow actions/triggers to stop healing at a certain %age. If this was possible, bandages would only stop bleeding and not heal you completely.

Basically, to reiterate, medikits can't be coded to only heal someone up to x%.

So I've heard.

'[twl wrote:Lan;1207309']Why do I see a new placeable, the "Medic tent/bunker" at the FoB? That would make FoB's worth defending even more.

That's been suggested soooooooooooooo many times - it's just boring now.

If they do take away rallies (which they probably will be) then an inability to revive is just not a good idea... having to go back to the FOB just because someone was taken out is stupid and would just RUIN game play.

Also your 3rd consideration is kind of stupid - R&R? At an FOB (Main bases are FOBs) you will get no R&R, when you are off the battlefield at a place like Camp Bastion in Afghan - then you can have some rest.

As for the vehicles - great, even LESS troops on the ground than there already are - not good.

The warfare being depicted in PR will Never (ever ever ever) be like real combat - casualties are FAR more common in PR - even with the medic system as it is now far more people die than in real warfare - with this it will just be ridiculous, and will lead to EVEN LESS unit cohesion, much more lone wolfing, and less new players.

The only possible way I can think of having no reviving is to cut respawn time by alot (New players aren't going to want to sit around all the time just because they got shot while crossing the road).

Also - in real warfare if there is a man down you don't just leave him, someone DOES have to go out there and drag him back into cover (something which is not possible with the BF2 engine) and get him a casevac. The reviving represents all of this, including a casevac and a new troop going in - something which again is not possible with the BF2 engine without being ridiculous.

Also (I like also) the best teamwork that happens in PR is when a soldier is down and the rest of the squad are securing the position for the medic to revive him.

A good counter debate Herbie, but less of the 'stupid' please!

On that, in terms of gameplay whilst the main base may still be a 'fob' in the region we can't exactly go off map to the Camp Bastion of Qwai etc, so the main base is a gameplay substitute.

Everything in this suggestion is either a re-suggestion or something that isn't possible that has been discussed before.

Confirmation from R-DEV please so I'll stop wasting my energy? Seems to be a few naysayers here but not known whether they're justified or just miserable