Project Reality Forums

Okay, I want to work on two assumptions here: while in insurgency mode, Collaborators are basically unused outside of organized matches, and Insurgent forces in Insurgency mode act more like conventional soldiers than real guerrillas (Eg:not as difficult to identify insurgents as in real life

Keeping this in mind, I want to suggest that all or some insurgent kits other than civi be given the abillity to go unarmed with the same benefits and restrictions as apply to the collaborator (albiet with no timer penalty if killed and greater penalty for Bluefor if having shot). This would emulate the abillity for guerrilla forces to "drop their weapons and act as civilians", a common feature of insurgent conflicts.

gameplay-wise, this adjustment would be alter little in close-range fighting, and impart a greater level of realism. This suggestion would complement the already suggested concept to replace/remove civi.

*That said, however, if .9 provides the "drop kit" option, then all that would be required is coding to allow insurgent forces "unarmed" mode if current kit is dropped, something that can be easily arranged*

So what, if an insurgent comes into contact, they can instantly click the 'go unarmed' option and not be shot?

Hypothetically this option could just mean the instant you are about to get the killing blow, the insurgent could switch to this unarmed option, and the blufor would get the penalty. But the insurgent, would get no form of penalty at all.

No.

As for identifying insurgents, this isn't really that hard to know they are the bad guys.




You're thinking of stuff like insurgents that blow up IEDs, who just look like another run of the mill civilian. Well, until bot civilians are added to add life to the city, this system isn't going to work because you know that every non-blufor walking around is on the enemy team.

I could see this, but it would need major restrictions. Like a 5 second draw time after selecting the weapon and/or a major cooldown or this would be abused endlessly.

No - a REAL insurgency is IMPOSSIBLE to re-create on the BF2 engine, there won't be any bot civis because simply that would make the Engine go "aaaargh" and die.

And this suggestion means that the Insurgents can be blazing away at the BluFor in the middle of the street, then go to unarmed. Under the current ROE, the BluFor would simply, I think the term is, "Blow his brains out.". if they can positively Identify him as an insurgent (I.e they just saw him put his weapons down) they can open fire.

An idea I've been quietly advocating for a while.

Currently, Insurgents can pick up a dropped Collaberator kit, emparting them with a 1:30 count-down until they are subject to the kit's ROE. This would function properly, assuming there are one or more civilians for them to blend with.

Unfortunately, this step alone may not be enough -- I believe the Intel system needs either overhauled or eliminated.

-REad

How about some how having the civil character randomly be given one of the outfits of an non civil and still have all the options and punishments they have now. And then give every insergant a "hands up" option, like the civil guy. But no punnishment or point loss for the one who shoots them.

Hope you understan what I mean... hahah

Lemon wrote:How about some how having the civil character randomly be given one of the outfits of an non civil and still have all the options and punishments they have now. And then give every insergant a "hands up" option, like the civil guy. But no punnishment or point loss for the one who shoots them.

Then whats the point if they can be shot without punishment?

If you can confirm an enemy is an enemy, but hes acting innocent, and you can shoot him without anything bad happening, I'd shoot him.

Plus no civilian would be wearing 50's Soviet webbing and a red and white shemagh around his head.

Only thing that needs to be removed is the civilian class completely, and patches added to the classes.

I mean seriously, tearing up a bedsheet is a crude patch for putting on a wound. If the Taliban have military issue ones, the Insurgents should at least have cheap homemade ones, if they can take over a Red Cross medical compound, I'm sure they'd have access to medical supplies.

Well the point is not to know if it's an civilian or not. And I think that's what Shaihuluid is trying to suggest...

It's a "It might be a civilian" situation. If some insurgents would look like civilians then people would be more carefull.

Lemon wrote:Well the point is not to know if it's an civilian or not. And I think that's what Shaihuluid is trying to suggest...

It's a "It might be a civilian" situation. If some insurgents would look like civilians then people would be more carefull.

I'll save you the folks the agony of "he might mean this/might mean that" and say I am only advocating for all insurgent kits to have the benefits of the unarmed cvillians with some modification to avoid exploition

Herbiie wrote:No - a REAL insurgency is IMPOSSIBLE to re-create on the BF2 engine, there won't be any bot civis because simply that would make the Engine go "aaaargh" and die.

And this suggestion means that the Insurgents can be blazing away at the BluFor in the middle of the street, then go to unarmed. Under the current ROE, the BluFor would simply, I think the term is, "Blow his brains out.". if they can positively Identify him as an insurgent (I.e they just saw him put his weapons down) they can open fire.

Identify the insurgent in this photograph, I dare you. Insurgencys are not open warfare for a reason It might not be completely realistic, but giving insurgents "unarmed" mode would allow a in-game equivilent

SkaterCrush wrote:I could see this, but it would need major restrictions. Like a 5 second draw time after selecting the weapon and/or a major cooldown or this would be abused endlessly.

Yes, this is basically what I'm talking about

what if you go after the civilian to cuff him and he takes out an AKM and fires you up

If this ever happens then the insurgent shouldnt be able to use their weapons after they go into "civi mode", so that way what dtacs said doesnt happen

From my understanding of .9 as its built right now, players will have the ability to drop there kits anytime they want. once your kit is droped, you can only salute or raise your hands in surrender. if the insurgents were to be given this function, i would assume that they would be subject to the same "cooldown" as the civilians do after helping an insurgent. so you wouldnt be able to just drop your kit, run around and expect the blufor to get a penatly for shooting you.

this is all a guess of course, as i am not a DEV. this is just a theory formed out of previews of .9 and my own imagination.

salute? that would be pretty cool i can see people salute spamming already

rushn wrote:salute? that would be pretty cool i can see people salute spamming already

Being cynical, are we?

well, anything in PR can be abused or manipulated given enough paitence. Salute spamming is a little more benign than chat or radio spamming IMO

comander chat spaming is the worst

Salute your sensei... I SAID SALUTE YOUR SENSEI!!!

going back on topic, i would actually agree with such a feature...

PR already has ROE with timers so that if you use your medic pack as a civilian in which you become an insurgent collaborator , you have to wait 60 seconds before you can be considered a civilian again an not be shot and punished as a normal kill.

I don't think it would be that difficult to keep a similar rule for when an insurgent drops his kit and becomes unarmed. As in he can be shot for the next 60 seconds or more, before he is considered a civilian. This would allow for his kit to disappear so that he can't pick it up again and shoot at you.

If he tries to recycle the kit, the countdown keeps going back to zero. And the arresting would work as with any normal civilian/collaborator.

Seems more or less easy to do according to what is already in game and what will be in 0.9

This would certainly make the soldiers more careful on what they shoot at.