[Community Proposal] Convert BF2 maps to PR
Posted: 2010-01-24 16:32
Community Proposal BF2 map conversion to PR
Hey everyone,
I'm a BF2 vet who has long played BF2 and some PR and now came back. Just recently though I was able to get my first real taste of PR on my new laptop, and I want to say its a true piece of work. From starting over a week ago on PR along with BF2(played BF2 on a outdated comp and it was a pain lots of lag etc same with some older PR build however with PR very little) I've spent many hours a day having tons of fun and seeing how it really does correct the flaws I've seen with BF2. You see the real magic and inspiration of how the developers wanted to make a more realistic and inspired version of the war portrayed in Battlefield 2.
For this reason behind making PR to build upon/improve BF2 im about to propose something to you all that could solidify the mod even more and please the BF2 veterans and diehards, and everyone alike. What im proposing to you all is to convert all the original BF2 maps to PR.
Now just while ive been thinking about this, thinking if I should bring it up to the community or not. Maybe I'd get flamed and hated because some people have bad taste of BF2 and want nothing to do with them. Maybe people feel the original maps aren't up to PR standards. Then maybe I thought there could be people who like and would be willing to support this idea, it doesn't hurt to ask right?
Looking through the “History of PR thread” I found that originally in very early versions of the mod some of the original maps were used as the maps for the mod. I found this to be very interesting as I figured only playing newer versions that even the early builds had all custom maps. They didn't though and they must of worked then and worked well enough to inspire a Strike at Karkand 2 map. This seemed very cool to me and I understand that there probably wasn't enough resources to make many new maps early in the mods life, the BF2 maps were a foundation and worked.
Now going into this, when people have brought up original maps before for PR in threads and such from what I could gather they must come unmodified from EA. Yes I understand that. For many reasons I can think of though it wouldn't be too much of a problem.
The first reason is DICE made some good maps already and weren't so wide open as to give players easy accessibility. In PR obviously unless its skirmish maps they aren't for easy accessibility which makes the combat less frequent and your able to have longer rounds etc. For the original BF2 maps in PR we can have those as our “more accessible” type maps so to speak, and they are pretty big already mostly depending so even still you don't loose a whole lot, I mean comparing the two other than size and easiness of getting to places the way BF2 maps are setup wouldn't ruin the game play so to speak maybe just on those specific maps make certain things work a different way.
Also they could in another element as a little smaller type scale maps for PR and a few of them giving us what we've been missing in a CQB map. The only real scales of CBR in PR I've seen is in skirmishes and the rest are large wide open maps were engagements are few and far between. Now I support this and understand thats part of the mod but it would be nice to have a full player CQB map for PR to go along with the maps already. It would be realistic in the sense not every combat zone in RL is huge and wide open and it would be a nice compliment to what the community has done already, and fill a void in my opinion is in the mod and a new element.
Maps I mean for CQB: Strike at Karkand, (possibly Mashturr City)
Yes I feel some of you for Strike at Karkand and the hate, the constant nade spam, and noobism we see, and one reason it was very much love/hate for me in BF2. However the way PR was made eliminates a lot of this, there aren't near as many grenades in kits, so you wouldn't see near as many around. Also spawning on the flags I would support being removed and basically would include all core elements as PR but just be the same map. Ill use this as my first example for how it would be modified and then talk about the other maps.
Firstly as a general overview of modifications from BF2 to PR on all maps, similar to PR maps the spawning would be modified so you would spawn at the USMC uncap post or furthest back base and would be the only spawn point for US. Same for all other coalition teams. Then the MEC or Chinese team would spawn at their main base. Although there could possibly be a few other spawn locations depending on the map individually. For vehicles on maps, all vehicles would only be at the main bases just like PR. Then we have the *** mode where the map flags locations would be the same but only be captured in order. However these are just basic ideas.
Then last, we obviously modify the vehicle placements and the vehicle setup and kits.
For map size we have the standard 64, and 32, which I know in PR there's main map size and Skirmish however I just for the sake of player accommodations we could have all 3, but 16 player would be skirmish mode map.
Descriptions on changes for other core BF2 maps to PR:
Possibility replace USMC with Army on some maps depending on location and scenario which we can discuss:
More coming as I get suggestions and ideas(here map changes ideas each map
(fraction, how to alter map notes ideas)
Dalian Plant:
Daqing Oilfields:
Dragon Valley:
FuShe Pass:
Gulf of Oman:
Highway Tampa:
Kubra Dam:
Mashtuur City:
Operation Blue Pearl:
Operation Clean Sweep:
Road to Jalalabad:
Sharqi Peninsula:
Songhua Stalemate:
Strike at Karkand:
Wake Island 2007:
Zatar Wetlands:
Now here comes the fun part. I appreciate the ideas Digital Illusions made with the expansion packs, however it is somewhat silly and very unrealistic. Special forces seems lazy and a mess in a lot of ways, and Euro Force while having a new army maps and weapons to me it just was a unrealistic and weird idea to have a EU Army. Armored Fury was a solid idea, with few complaints since its not much different than BF2 other than new maps.
Here we go, I actually find that the 2 smaller expansion packs Euro Force and armored Fury could be a big part of PR, let me explain:
With Euro Force we keep the maps but get rid of the EU fraction. Instead, this is open to ideas but I think it would work well to have the British be the opposing fraction on Great Wall, as the scenario for that given by the map description fits well with the British needing to reenforce the Americans down South and could be like a “first encounter type map”. In PR we have a few British vs MEC maps but maybe Operation Smoke screen could be another British vs MEC map with the English helping fight the MEC in the Middle East and we leave the other map Taraba Quarry open to another PR fraction. I think the French could fit this description well as the Euro Force in BF2 seems based quite a bit on the French. This way I see the real Euro Force that BF2 so strangely and inaccurately portrayed. Also this leaves the possibly for more maps as well though converting the first 3 would be a priority.
For Armored Fury this is my personal idea. I think it would be better than what BF2 portrayed to have a US Army fraction and remove the USMC as in a real life national invasion while our forces are at war, it would be more likely to have the national guard correct? “Pennsylvania national guard” for the road rage map may be too much to put in the name slot but we could mention that somewhere else in the loading screen description for instance and have a US Army fraction similar to PR's with, and possibly like PR did with the militias and insurgents have them slightly disadvantaged, being less equipped as maybe the national guard wouldn't have as resources much as the US Army overseas. However that's up for discussion, just my initial thoughts.
In Alaska for Midnight Sun, I say the US Army Alaskan National Guard take over for the USMC and maybe we get the coast guard involved with some vehicles and kits. Or possibly a extra map with just the coast guard. In a real invasion of Alaska in a national crisis with as active as the coast guard is they would probably help out. To me this would be pretty cool.
Lastly dealing with armored fury, this would be great to get the Canadian forces involved, with adding a map or a few new maps in where they fight the Chinese on US soil. As our ally with China invading Alaska they would have no problem helping us out.
With Special Forces as the expansion itself is just a gimmick and done for fun and just have it, and really not realistic at all in terms of having Special Forces groups as “armies” and they don't modify the Russian based groups at all in terms of equipment, for some major flaws pointed out, this would need major overhauling to make it a more realistic type series of maps, however I think would be great in PR fitting with the theme “this is what battlefield 2 should of been”. I will mention my ideas at a later date though firstly discussing converting the other maps first. Also this would be separate from PR altogether just being something like “Project Reality Special Forces”. Where we would take the original maps and fractions fix them and maybe even more maps/ fractions.
Now to conclude, you may wonder why I even care about all this. I do because PR from the beginning its very mission was to make a more realistic BF2, in the developers and communities own right. And to me that includes the maps that were originally made and the fractions PR gave us which seem like a huge expansion to the story of the war that EA didn't give us. All the maps PR devs made make sense to the original BF2 maps with the battle scenarios and seem like more battles in the war. With all this with this mission to me it would feel very empty without the heart of BF2 in the original maps being in PR. They were the core of the original war and it only seems proper to include them. Also for PR players who liked BF2, make PR feel more complete by having those maps. Make the mod more complete as well. Then last but not least, it can work and work very well.
My goal is to if you guys like the idea and devs approve it to put together a community mod team to do this. The reason I don't ask the devs to do it and make it a actual suggestion for the suggestion forum is because the devs have way to much to do already and I would like to be apart of this in some way and have us be apart of it to get it done. I need to do a video game type deal for a project at school and this would fit well if it turns out being approved and people would be willing to help. However, a few developers or as many as would want to could help lead and show us what to do which would be nice if they was willing.
I must also disclaim this is NOT IN ANY WAY to take away or distract from what the PR team has done and will do to this point and the future if this ever gets completed. I very much respect and am only seeing this as a expansion and accommodation to what the developers have done first with their work. PR comes first, and that's the way it should be. I am not hoping this would replace or take away from the maps we currently have and will have in the future up to 1.0 and beyond because every single one of those maps are awesome and should be played first and foremost. These maps I would hope not be played over the originals or distract from those. Only to be apart of and add to the library of maps, and this could possibly expand the player base as well seeing as this really is “BF2” in a new light. I really hope you guys see this as I do these maps would not take away or distract merely add on. To the Devs I thank them for what they've done to make the PR maps and the mod itself to even give us the opportunity to do this. Surely it would give us another bulk of material to the mod to make a vast map library.
Thank you all for taking the time to consider this. If you have any ideas to what I said such as your opinions on fractions modifications for the maps, like/dislike the idea please leave them here. Also if you would be willing to help me with this and help out, please state here too. My goal is that if enough people would support, we can make this another community mod project along with the fractions being made as I stated early.. This may not be able to happen but I wanted to at least throw it out there and let fate decide and I understand if it could not be able to be done. This thread is just merely bringing it the idea up with some basic ideas, then getting more ideas, approvals, then some idea if it could be done or not. By chance if people want this and we could get a team going and approved by the devs and see If people are willing then it turns into what we should do type discussions.
Also with how each map should go and what we should actually do I can only describe with more ideas and some sort of possibility this could actually be done, as I dunno just myself exactly how everything should be. Karkand was just a example however my general description on the maps would hold true. Then if this generates enough discussion and if this does become more a look as it might happen ill edit ideas in.
Post ideas, yes or no and if you'd be willing to join a community mod team, and support in any way.
Thank you. Lange
Other Ideas(added as people suggest):
Hey everyone,
I'm a BF2 vet who has long played BF2 and some PR and now came back. Just recently though I was able to get my first real taste of PR on my new laptop, and I want to say its a true piece of work. From starting over a week ago on PR along with BF2(played BF2 on a outdated comp and it was a pain lots of lag etc same with some older PR build however with PR very little) I've spent many hours a day having tons of fun and seeing how it really does correct the flaws I've seen with BF2. You see the real magic and inspiration of how the developers wanted to make a more realistic and inspired version of the war portrayed in Battlefield 2.
For this reason behind making PR to build upon/improve BF2 im about to propose something to you all that could solidify the mod even more and please the BF2 veterans and diehards, and everyone alike. What im proposing to you all is to convert all the original BF2 maps to PR.
Now just while ive been thinking about this, thinking if I should bring it up to the community or not. Maybe I'd get flamed and hated because some people have bad taste of BF2 and want nothing to do with them. Maybe people feel the original maps aren't up to PR standards. Then maybe I thought there could be people who like and would be willing to support this idea, it doesn't hurt to ask right?
Looking through the “History of PR thread” I found that originally in very early versions of the mod some of the original maps were used as the maps for the mod. I found this to be very interesting as I figured only playing newer versions that even the early builds had all custom maps. They didn't though and they must of worked then and worked well enough to inspire a Strike at Karkand 2 map. This seemed very cool to me and I understand that there probably wasn't enough resources to make many new maps early in the mods life, the BF2 maps were a foundation and worked.
Now going into this, when people have brought up original maps before for PR in threads and such from what I could gather they must come unmodified from EA. Yes I understand that. For many reasons I can think of though it wouldn't be too much of a problem.
The first reason is DICE made some good maps already and weren't so wide open as to give players easy accessibility. In PR obviously unless its skirmish maps they aren't for easy accessibility which makes the combat less frequent and your able to have longer rounds etc. For the original BF2 maps in PR we can have those as our “more accessible” type maps so to speak, and they are pretty big already mostly depending so even still you don't loose a whole lot, I mean comparing the two other than size and easiness of getting to places the way BF2 maps are setup wouldn't ruin the game play so to speak maybe just on those specific maps make certain things work a different way.
Also they could in another element as a little smaller type scale maps for PR and a few of them giving us what we've been missing in a CQB map. The only real scales of CBR in PR I've seen is in skirmishes and the rest are large wide open maps were engagements are few and far between. Now I support this and understand thats part of the mod but it would be nice to have a full player CQB map for PR to go along with the maps already. It would be realistic in the sense not every combat zone in RL is huge and wide open and it would be a nice compliment to what the community has done already, and fill a void in my opinion is in the mod and a new element.
Maps I mean for CQB: Strike at Karkand, (possibly Mashturr City)
Yes I feel some of you for Strike at Karkand and the hate, the constant nade spam, and noobism we see, and one reason it was very much love/hate for me in BF2. However the way PR was made eliminates a lot of this, there aren't near as many grenades in kits, so you wouldn't see near as many around. Also spawning on the flags I would support being removed and basically would include all core elements as PR but just be the same map. Ill use this as my first example for how it would be modified and then talk about the other maps.
Firstly as a general overview of modifications from BF2 to PR on all maps, similar to PR maps the spawning would be modified so you would spawn at the USMC uncap post or furthest back base and would be the only spawn point for US. Same for all other coalition teams. Then the MEC or Chinese team would spawn at their main base. Although there could possibly be a few other spawn locations depending on the map individually. For vehicles on maps, all vehicles would only be at the main bases just like PR. Then we have the *** mode where the map flags locations would be the same but only be captured in order. However these are just basic ideas.
Then last, we obviously modify the vehicle placements and the vehicle setup and kits.
For map size we have the standard 64, and 32, which I know in PR there's main map size and Skirmish however I just for the sake of player accommodations we could have all 3, but 16 player would be skirmish mode map.
Descriptions on changes for other core BF2 maps to PR:
Possibility replace USMC with Army on some maps depending on location and scenario which we can discuss:
More coming as I get suggestions and ideas(here map changes ideas each map
(fraction, how to alter map notes ideas)
Dalian Plant:
Daqing Oilfields:
Dragon Valley:
FuShe Pass:
Gulf of Oman:
Highway Tampa:
Kubra Dam:
Mashtuur City:
Operation Blue Pearl:
Operation Clean Sweep:
Road to Jalalabad:
Sharqi Peninsula:
Songhua Stalemate:
Strike at Karkand:
Wake Island 2007:
Zatar Wetlands:
Now here comes the fun part. I appreciate the ideas Digital Illusions made with the expansion packs, however it is somewhat silly and very unrealistic. Special forces seems lazy and a mess in a lot of ways, and Euro Force while having a new army maps and weapons to me it just was a unrealistic and weird idea to have a EU Army. Armored Fury was a solid idea, with few complaints since its not much different than BF2 other than new maps.
Here we go, I actually find that the 2 smaller expansion packs Euro Force and armored Fury could be a big part of PR, let me explain:
With Euro Force we keep the maps but get rid of the EU fraction. Instead, this is open to ideas but I think it would work well to have the British be the opposing fraction on Great Wall, as the scenario for that given by the map description fits well with the British needing to reenforce the Americans down South and could be like a “first encounter type map”. In PR we have a few British vs MEC maps but maybe Operation Smoke screen could be another British vs MEC map with the English helping fight the MEC in the Middle East and we leave the other map Taraba Quarry open to another PR fraction. I think the French could fit this description well as the Euro Force in BF2 seems based quite a bit on the French. This way I see the real Euro Force that BF2 so strangely and inaccurately portrayed. Also this leaves the possibly for more maps as well though converting the first 3 would be a priority.
For Armored Fury this is my personal idea. I think it would be better than what BF2 portrayed to have a US Army fraction and remove the USMC as in a real life national invasion while our forces are at war, it would be more likely to have the national guard correct? “Pennsylvania national guard” for the road rage map may be too much to put in the name slot but we could mention that somewhere else in the loading screen description for instance and have a US Army fraction similar to PR's with, and possibly like PR did with the militias and insurgents have them slightly disadvantaged, being less equipped as maybe the national guard wouldn't have as resources much as the US Army overseas. However that's up for discussion, just my initial thoughts.
In Alaska for Midnight Sun, I say the US Army Alaskan National Guard take over for the USMC and maybe we get the coast guard involved with some vehicles and kits. Or possibly a extra map with just the coast guard. In a real invasion of Alaska in a national crisis with as active as the coast guard is they would probably help out. To me this would be pretty cool.
Lastly dealing with armored fury, this would be great to get the Canadian forces involved, with adding a map or a few new maps in where they fight the Chinese on US soil. As our ally with China invading Alaska they would have no problem helping us out.
With Special Forces as the expansion itself is just a gimmick and done for fun and just have it, and really not realistic at all in terms of having Special Forces groups as “armies” and they don't modify the Russian based groups at all in terms of equipment, for some major flaws pointed out, this would need major overhauling to make it a more realistic type series of maps, however I think would be great in PR fitting with the theme “this is what battlefield 2 should of been”. I will mention my ideas at a later date though firstly discussing converting the other maps first. Also this would be separate from PR altogether just being something like “Project Reality Special Forces”. Where we would take the original maps and fractions fix them and maybe even more maps/ fractions.
Now to conclude, you may wonder why I even care about all this. I do because PR from the beginning its very mission was to make a more realistic BF2, in the developers and communities own right. And to me that includes the maps that were originally made and the fractions PR gave us which seem like a huge expansion to the story of the war that EA didn't give us. All the maps PR devs made make sense to the original BF2 maps with the battle scenarios and seem like more battles in the war. With all this with this mission to me it would feel very empty without the heart of BF2 in the original maps being in PR. They were the core of the original war and it only seems proper to include them. Also for PR players who liked BF2, make PR feel more complete by having those maps. Make the mod more complete as well. Then last but not least, it can work and work very well.
My goal is to if you guys like the idea and devs approve it to put together a community mod team to do this. The reason I don't ask the devs to do it and make it a actual suggestion for the suggestion forum is because the devs have way to much to do already and I would like to be apart of this in some way and have us be apart of it to get it done. I need to do a video game type deal for a project at school and this would fit well if it turns out being approved and people would be willing to help. However, a few developers or as many as would want to could help lead and show us what to do which would be nice if they was willing.
I must also disclaim this is NOT IN ANY WAY to take away or distract from what the PR team has done and will do to this point and the future if this ever gets completed. I very much respect and am only seeing this as a expansion and accommodation to what the developers have done first with their work. PR comes first, and that's the way it should be. I am not hoping this would replace or take away from the maps we currently have and will have in the future up to 1.0 and beyond because every single one of those maps are awesome and should be played first and foremost. These maps I would hope not be played over the originals or distract from those. Only to be apart of and add to the library of maps, and this could possibly expand the player base as well seeing as this really is “BF2” in a new light. I really hope you guys see this as I do these maps would not take away or distract merely add on. To the Devs I thank them for what they've done to make the PR maps and the mod itself to even give us the opportunity to do this. Surely it would give us another bulk of material to the mod to make a vast map library.
Thank you all for taking the time to consider this. If you have any ideas to what I said such as your opinions on fractions modifications for the maps, like/dislike the idea please leave them here. Also if you would be willing to help me with this and help out, please state here too. My goal is that if enough people would support, we can make this another community mod project along with the fractions being made as I stated early.. This may not be able to happen but I wanted to at least throw it out there and let fate decide and I understand if it could not be able to be done. This thread is just merely bringing it the idea up with some basic ideas, then getting more ideas, approvals, then some idea if it could be done or not. By chance if people want this and we could get a team going and approved by the devs and see If people are willing then it turns into what we should do type discussions.
Also with how each map should go and what we should actually do I can only describe with more ideas and some sort of possibility this could actually be done, as I dunno just myself exactly how everything should be. Karkand was just a example however my general description on the maps would hold true. Then if this generates enough discussion and if this does become more a look as it might happen ill edit ideas in.
Post ideas, yes or no and if you'd be willing to join a community mod team, and support in any way.
Thank you. Lange
Other Ideas(added as people suggest):
