Project Reality Forums

ok so i looked in search and didnt find anything like this,

1: can a m203 or other variant cause damage to apc's

2: if they can how much damage do they inflict?

reason why im asking is because im a soldier in the real u.s. army and i know have been told that a 40mm HE grenade can cause slight damage to armor and is worth trying because it can cause a track to come off of a tank or apc and might just disable it permanently.

And before anyone flames and says its not supposed to be an anti tank weapon, i know it would break the game to have the 203 be a super armor owner but it could at least do small damage.

I don't think it does, only does damage to thin skin vehicles (FAV, Humvee, jeeps etc)

thats what i figured i tried it earlier on fools road to a british apc and it didnt seem to even effect it after 3 direct hits so thas why i figured id ask

The HEDP (high explosive dual purpose) IRL has a small shaped charge, and can penetrate something like 10-20mm of steel plate. In PR they just use HE.

Will the HEDP round me present on the Mk19 to combat the BTR-60s on Muttrah? (one would assume)

Can the HEDP round be used in the M203, and if it can be, is it ever issued to troops?

m1oh7 wrote:1: can a m203 or other variant cause damage to apc's

2: if they can how much damage do they inflict?

1. Yes. This applies to most of the armour on the BDRM-2, the wheels of the the Stryker, LAV-3, LAV-25, BTR variants and the WZ551 and the tracks of the M113 and Warrior.

2. It should take more than 20 hits to the hull with the UGL to take out a BDRM-2 (219 direct hits based on materials code). It should take 55 direct hits to the wheels on any wheeled APC and 219 direct hits to the tracks of any tracked APC (again based on the materials code). In other words, it's almost pointless shooting at the APC's unless your objective is to scare them into thinking they are under attack by heavier weapons. A smoke round to the front of the enemy APC also causes mayhem too I find.

Even IRL using a 203 against armor isn't the best idea. You could cause it to throw a track but then you've just made it into a very powerful stationary weapons platform. Plus if your close enough to the vehicle to hit it just right and get the track thrown then you're close enough for it to shred you to pieces with it's MGs or the main gun. Lastly firing the 203 will give away your position. Which will then cause the enemy to 1. kill you. or 2. call in more people the proceed to try option 1 again. Repeating that process until you are dead or they get bored with you.

So basically in PR don't do it, and downrange in the real world, I'd be wary of anyone that tells you to do that in combat, they may be stupid or have a death wish.

[R-MOD]Thermis wrote:Even IRL using a 203 against armor isn't the best idea. You could cause it to throw a track but then you've just made it into a very powerful stationary weapons platform. Plus if your close enough to the vehicle to hit it just right and get the track thrown then you're close enough for it to shred you to pieces with it's MGs or the main gun.

You obviously haven't heard of the term "mobility kill" . Stationary armour is left behind when the fighting moves on and is extremely vulnerable most anti-armour weapons.

[R-MOD]Thermis wrote:Lastly firing the 203 will give away your position. Which will then cause the enemy to 1. kill you. or 2. call in more people the proceed to try option 1 again. Repeating that process until you are dead or they get bored with you.

Someone firing an M203 is very hard to locate in-game since the launcher is softer than a rifle and because there is no trails or tracer to lead back to the shooter. I personally cannot recall an instance where I have died as a result of using the grenade launcher in-game.

[R-MOD]Thermis wrote:So basically in PR don't do it, and downrange in the real world, I'd be wary of anyone that tells you to do that in combat, they may be stupid or have a death wish.

I disagree. Do it (within reason), but don't expect to destroy the APC. The minor damage you might inflict may convince the APC that he's been hit or taken a near miss by a rocket, encouraging him to retreat. IF the APC does this it'll lessen the pressure on your team.

Also, HEDP rounds such as the M433 are, "designed to penetrate at least two inches of steel armor at 0 degrees obliquity and inflict personnel casualties in the target area" (Source: Chapter 6 of TM 43-0001-28, ARMY AMMUNITION DATA SHEETS). I think you could safely assume that most APC's have armour which is resistant to .50 calibre rounds. An armour piecing .50 cal round will penetrate at most an inch of steel armour plate at 200m (Source: Chapter 1 of FM 23-65, BROWNING MACHINE GUN CALIBER .50 HB, M2). Therefore one would expect something that has a penetrating power in the order of double that of a .50 cal round to able to be able to penetrate the armour of an APC which is merely resistant to .50 cal rounds.

Alright.

1. You obviously don't know how armored vehicles in modern armies operate. If you immobilize a armored vehicle in a battle it will not just be left behind. Someone will have to come rescue the crew. Which means the infantry which are supporting the armor or more armor will be coming to your position. Plus if its an APC you might have to deal with the troops inside of it.

2.I was speaking as to real life when firing a M203 which has a fairly distinct sound that can be located by infantry in the area. It also produces a muzzle flash just like any other weapon that can be located.

3. In PR it comes down to opinion really.

IRL: APCs and Tanks are covered in composite armor these days. Most also have a reactive armor component either added or built in. So your argument is invalid. Reactive armor completely neutralizes any damage that a HE round would do, and thats even if it makes it through the composite, which is made up of all kinds of things, not just steel. M2 .50Cal MGs are only effective against thin skinned vehicles, mostly wheeled type vehicles, anything classified as Armor should not be engaged by a M2 if the gunner wants to live.

Sources are personal experience and TM-55-2350-252-14 and TM 9-2350-264-10-1/2

[R-CON]nedlands1 wrote: In other words, it's almost pointless shooting at the APC's unless your objective is to scare them into thinking they are under attack by heavier weapons. A smoke round to the front of the enemy APC also causes mayhem too I find.

I use both tactics against APC's, last week when the BTR was raping our firebase I dropped smoke between it and the FB then an HE round on top. It retreated.

yea im not sure if it does much but ( it MAY ) scare the apc away in fear of an ambush

to OP: it is an explosion, so i imagine it would do some damage. In vBF2 if you chucked anough grenades at a tank, it could destroy it. I would think you could blow it up with 203's, but it would probably take forever

203 rounds can trick an APC into thinking it took a Rocket and sending it on its way.

Be afraid, be very afraid!


From this guy --------> [R-MOD]Thermis

its a good way to keep a APC off its game, every few seconds you'll make the driver and gunner go

"WTF was that?"

"near miss?"

"didn't see"

"no idea"

"OMG WHAT IS GOING ON"

"WE'RE ALL GONNA DIIIIIIIIIE"

*crew die from heart attacks brought on by stress and hamburgers*

If you're good you should be able to get the grenade to go down the hatch.

Solid Knight wrote:If you're good you should be able to get the grenade to go down the hatch.

Lol, if only you could do that in the BF2 engine. Although what APC crew would be stupid enough to leave their hatch open when hostile infantry are close...

I can very easily see some new player who hasn't read the manual doing that.

Yeah, we're well aware that the HEDP round can penetrate armour. In fact, I seem to recall someone mentioning how a MK19 gunner successfully engaged and destroyed a BMP with them during the Gulf War.

Currently in PR, they do no damage to armour. That could be liable to change in the future, though it still won't make engaging an APC with a UGL a good idea.

[R-MOD]Thermis wrote: 2.I was speaking as to real life when firing a M203 which has a fairly distinct sound that can be located by infantry in the area. It also produces a muzzle flash just like any other weapon that can be located.

Why do you keep referencing 'real life'? If it doesn't translate properly into PR or if its a totally different ball game (which it is) then

your argument is invalid.

[R-MOD]Thermis wrote:Lastly firing the 203 will give away your position. Which will then cause the enemy to 1. kill you. or 2. call in more people the proceed to try option 1 again. Repeating that process until you are dead or they get bored with you.

In real life if an enemy asset is moving to fast to shoot, but is still calling in accurate fire and everyone can't hit it, do they simply 'get bored with it and stop? Right.