Project Reality Forums

Draakon wrote:Wait, you mean the same rifle grenades that were used in WW2? Aka, put the grenade into your barrel and shoot it? It might be possible in Frostbite engine(ala vBF2 engine), but it would still give the same effect as shooting with Grenade launcher. IMO, i would use a GL instead of rifle grenade, because if i remember correctly, the rifle grenade is the same grenade as your everyday throw able grenade. Thus, it is weaker then the grenade used for grenade launchers. Plus, Grenade launcher is made specially for shooting grenades over long distance, thus grenade launchers are going to shoot father and with better accuracy as well.

http://www.combatreform.org/riflehandgrenades.htm wrote:U.S. Forces out-gunned on the modern battlefield, why?

We have shown how we are getting our "rears" handed to us in the close fight by enemy rifle grenades, RPGs, AKMs etc. However some may say the smaller M203 GL round can be carried in larger numbers and fired over a longer period of time before running out than non-collapsing fin rifle grenades.

The problem is the M203 is ineffective versus an enemy with rifle grenades (Vietnam), and in the hands of a dedicated Grenadier is often pinned down and unable to fire (Punta Paitilla). If you factor EQUALLY all of the general infantry tasks in a sort of mini-Battlefield Operating System (BOS) kind of way, the result is the needed corrective action gets stymied by Lowest Common Denominator (LCD) thinking. The LCD here is that the M203 has smaller shells so you can carry more of them compared to non-collapsing fin rifle grenades and continuously fire them over time, if you elevate this aspect to an equal footing to the explosive effectiveness factor, you negate the entire need to go with rifle grenades.

Result: status quo remains intact! And we will continue to lose the close fight, and men, and battles and wars....

However, it doesn't work:

1. If the dedicated M203 Grenadier is pinned down by enemy fire.
2. The Grenadier is poorly trained due to manning turmoil etc. and cannot shoot accurately--vital for its puny warhead size---due to the weapon not taken seriously and having no consistent training means
3. The shells being fired over time, even if they are landing near the enemy are irrelevant due to their small size/effect.
4. The weight of the M203 GL itself--inefficient way to deliver grenades at extended ranges

What matters is HITTING AND KILLING the enemy and the M203 40mm GL isn't doing it.

On the other hand, rifle grenades are 3 times as lethal, and if packaged right can be carried by EVERYONE IN THE SQUAD. What this means is instead of 6 pounds of M203 Grenade launcher weighing down the M16, you can have 6 x RIFLE GRENADES right there. You are already "6 rifle grenades up" on the M203 from the "get-go". For the same weight as a M203, your Grenadiers can have 26 x rifle grenades compared to just 20 x 40mm grenades and a 6-pound M203 dead weight attached to the M16.

Then, if you make the rifle grenade fins/tube collapse, they can be carried in less space and thrown as baseball or "stick" hand grenades---now you are giving the Soldier a vastly improved fighting potential----he has 30 rifle or hand grenades---depending on the situation he has 30 explosives effect charges for 0-40 meters or 100-350 meters, whereas the M16/M203 GL Grenadier has 20 x 100-300 meter explosive effects and 4 x 0-40m explosive effects available. The Rifle/Hand Grenades are the same size as an illumination M203 40mm Grenade now.

INDIVIDUALLY:

30 is better than 20.
30 is better than just 4.

GROUP:

Then you multiply this by the potential of the rest of the squad.

Paratrooper 2000 Rifle/Hand Grenade-equipped Infantry Squad

1 Squad Leader = 10 R/H grenades
2 Grenadiers = 60 R/H grenades
2 Fireteam leaders = 20 R/H grenades
2 Rifleman = 20 R/H grenades
2 Auto Riflemen = 20 R/H grenades

130 Total Grenades from 0-350 meters

1999 "Status quo sucks" M203 GL and Hand Grenade-equipped Squad

1 Squad Leader = 4 x H grenades
2 Grenadiers = 40 x 40mm, 8 x H grenades
2 Fireteam leaders = 8 x H grenades
2 Rifleman = 8 x H grenades
2 Auto Riflemen = 8 x H grenades

40 x M203 GL Grenades from 50-350 meters
36 x Hand grenades 0-40 meters
A mere 76 total grenades. If the two Grenadiers are pinned down, there is no extended range fire available.

In the U.S. Army the Fireteam leader has a M203 GL and there is 2 Riflemen in the squad, probably in realization the M203 is best used for leader target marking than explosives effect killing. Yet another reason why we need rifle grenades so we are not out-gunned on the modern battlefield.

With the loss of the M8 Buford Armored Gun System, retirement of M728 Combat Engineer Vehicles, Iowa Class battleships, our infantry is set for a repeat of October 3, 1993 Somalia all over again. We MUST do something TODAY to give our troops shock action to prevail on the increasingly urban battlefield. BT Rifle/hand grenades are something we can do to solve this.

Lets do it before its too late.

Draakon wrote:It might be possible in Frostbite engine(ala vBF2 engine)

Hitperson wrote:mentioning FW on here will only get you laughed at i'm afraid.

Nagard wrote:If I got it right, Sirex is suggesting to bring up the Riflegrenades for all factions regardless wether they use UGLs or not.

If this would be his intention then it's senseless. You already got the Grenadiers and you don't need launched grenades for everyone else.

Startrekern wrote:Thus, riflegrenades make sense for these factions -- more sense than these factions having UGLs.