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I am beginning work on assets and design for a new map, currently named "Operation Siren". I have a vision for the map; however, I want to hear the community's perspective on my ideas, as well as their own ideas to contribute, as this is NOT a typical PR map. This is a 85% dogfighting map, 15% air traffic control and S&R map, ideal for servers or community events dedicated to its play.

Here is the scenario:

A U.S. carrier group, moving to intercept an urgent naval threat the MEC has deployed in the Persian Gulf, cuts past a archipelago (pending geographical location) to save time. Satellite recon of the archipelago showed it to be safe; however, AWACS detects MiG launches from the formation's largest rock. The rock houses a high-tech MEC airbase, complete with twin steam catapult launch systems, an experimental counter-intelligence array, ECM, and a full fighter wing of MiG-29K's, along with a few Su-34's. The base was geared for such an operation: catching a shortcutting U.S. carrier group off guard and overwhelming it before it could respond.
With two urgent threats, the task group's commander decides to divide the task force in order to address both threats; the escort vessels move ahead to deal with the MEC task group, while the USS Nimitz deploys its air wing of F/A-18E Rhino's to address the threat of the stealth base.

Here's the current vision of the gameplay:

-8 kilometer map; the only landmass on the map is the MEC airbase in the Northeastern corner of the map, which is a modeled static in order to work around the terrain texture deficit in 8 km maps. The airbase is mostly interior, with a arrestor-assisted landing strip on the northeastern edge of the island, and a catapult-assisted launch strip on the soutwestern edge; both strips have a launch/landing heading of due northwest.

-The U.S.S. Nimitz occupies the southwestern corner of the map. If necessary, I'll model the static, though I hope someone in the community has already started one. For test versions of the map, I'll likely use a beta of the Rock base for both factions.

-The objective layout is a variant of Assault and Secure Random, with six random sections of .75 km airspace (in five layers; picture a football field with the mains as endzones, one objective area in each fifth of the field, and two in the middle of the field, will be selected). There are two ways to win: one is to bleed enemy tickets to zero as normal, the other is to control all airspace flags, which unlocks bomb-carrying fighter assets for the controlling team, allowing them to bomb the enemy control tower and win the game if the enemy cannot prevent the strike.

Both factions have symmetrical vehicle layouts:
-24 fighter aircraft (U.S. gets F/A-18E's, MEC gets MiG-29K's) with cannons and a loadout of four short-range AA missiles, four long-range AA missiles, and no bombs. These respawn on a five-minute timer.
-1 AWACS aircraft (E-2C Hawkeye for the U.S., KA-31 Helix for MEC). More on how these work later.
-2 S&R Helicopters (MH-60S Knighthawk for the U.S., Mi-17MD for MEC). Respawns on a two-minute timer.
-2 2-seater strike fighters that spawn once all objectives taken except enemy main (F/A-18F for the U.S., Su-34 for MEC). These will be equipped with LGB's as part of their loadout; since there will be no spotters, the commander will have to designate the objective target using a marker.

-The AWACS craft are critical for each team; these two-seat aircraft have a massive aircraft detection range, well beyond that of long-range missiles, which enhances battlefield awareness for a communicating team. The AWACS for each team has good defensive countermeasures, but will likely require an effective escorting force to ensure it stays up, and with a fifteen minute respawn clock, its loss will be keenly felt. How the detection system will function is one item that's up for debate.

-All aircraft assets (except for the S&R helicopters, which have no ticket value) are valued at two tickets rather than the conventional 20; the number of tickets each team gets is proportionally reduced to 100. Thus, successfully recovering pilots who eject from their aircraft (and thus, ejecting successfully from said aircraft) will allow a team to field far more aircraft before being defeated in ticket loss. Enter the value of the Search and Rescue helicopters, which have a vehicle entry area directly below the helicopter that allows a downed pilot in the water to board them.

-Use of the catapults and arrestor cable systems (as implemented from the CA mod) is managed by one player on each team (usually the commander, though not restricted to him), who, in an ideal setting, is in communication with all flight leaders at least (preferably all pilots through the use of Mumble). Thus, the role of Air Traffic Controller is both busy and important.

-Making U.S. Navy kit geometries won't be necessary; limit everyone to the pilot kit.

Comments? Concerns? Further ideas?

Fantastic idea, but the AWACs is not modeled, and all of these ideas really are just not going to work with PR, because pretty much all of the assets you want are not modeled in PR.

The F/A-18 is in CA, the MiG-29K is in PR and CA, the USS Nimitz has yet to be modeled, so no-go for PR, AWACs is not modeled, no-go for PR, F-15E Strike Eagle and Su-34 Finback are both not in PR, so no-go too. The F-15E is in CA, but the Su-34 is not in any mod. The S&R helicopters would have to be default models with some modifications to entry zones.

The AWACs would be a good idea, but really is not very effective in practice. The AWACs would probably have to implement radar, and the CA radar for air to air requires a "windshield-wiper" scan, and really would not help the team, because it would take some serious skill to vector in fighters by just knowing compass direction, and approximately what his altitude is.

If you could get a topdown view of the entire map, depicting your fighters, and their altitude and orientation, and also of all enemy jets within scanning range, showing their altitude and orientation, if you had direct voice comms to a pilot that would intercept it, then you could accomplish AWACs in PR.

The fighter-bomber spawn is especially a bad idea, because in PR, it is pretty much impossible to accurately use LGMs and LGBs without a lase. This would be more viable in CA, but the idea of destroying an objective to win the game is possibly hardcoded.

Hunt3r wrote:but the idea of destroying an objective to win the game is possibly hardcoded.

How bout insrugency?

If i dont want to fly, what would i do in this map?

It wouldn't be a regular-rotation map; it would be designated as Vehicle Warfare.

So if you don't want to fly, you either go ATC or copilot.

its good i guess for jets and this how it should be.

i really dont understand why we have to add jets in 4km area.
its not realistic at all.its stupid.
jets should be moved in vehicle warfare.

It is all aircraft, 8x8km ala 8x8km Seethed Waters, but Seethed has an air superiority layer, which is pretty much all jets, but doesn't have an actual Nimitz, nor does it have a CSAR helicopter, and AWACs is missing, but in the chaos that is 32 jets vs 32 jets, I doubt you'll have the ability to rapidfire vector 30 aircraft on to 30 enemy aircraft, and it would pretty much turn into a sky full of dead planes and missile smoke trails.

There is a 10x10km map in the works somewhere, which should be interesting for vehicle warfare for aircraft.

Good luck with that tbh, what you are planning is basically a whole other mod away from PR and what PR tries to accomplish. As Hunt3r has stated the vast majority of assets you are looking for are not modelled in PR, meaning a huge amount of work would need to be done before they could ever be complete.

Some add-ons;

* AA"Island" with a few mounted Flaks and an AA-Missile instalation.
* Small islands were a squad could make FOBs where shot-down pilots could be brought if they aren't possible to get the carrier.
* Night map version, as both armies have nightvision.
* Allow people to get medic kits, combat engineer kits and rifleman kits as you need to be able to S&R pilots with some arms with you.

Blindfiring AA into the distance with a good luck to take something out, nice.

L4gi wrote:Blindfiring AA into the distance with a good luck to take something out, nice.

Ah L4gi, yet another situation where AA spam will be highly useful.


I don't have an opinion on the map per se, but the fact is that this is not actually a map concept, it's a mini-mod concept. You need a lot of assets and gameplay implementations that are not in PR, which is a lot more work than just a map (as if that were not work enough).

What would be nice would just be a vehicle warfare variant that focuses exclusively on air-to-air combat.

A Kashan, with 30 Migs and F-16s in the air..... I think you'd have to get rid of the "return to the combat zone" kill message, or else you're going to have lots of airborne collisions...

Also, this is highly relevant:

The problem I see about this Air to air VW map

1) This is air to air combat, No real teamwork is actually needed for this find someone and kill him.
2) BF2 maps are just too small to use tactical air to air teamwork in PR