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One thing that always bugged me about insurgency in PR is the starting of the round.

First of all the coalition forces have every reason to just rush at the enemy in trucks, tanks, armor, etc. Why? Because 10seconds after a round starts you can be damn sure there won't be any mines or IEDs in most of the choke points.

Another advantage for the coalition is the lack of spawn points for the insurgents. For example, if you started driving out of the main on Korengal, and you round the corner and see multiple insurgents coming from the cave area, you know 100% that there will be a cache in that cave. Because the insurgents have absolutely zero time to move around the battlefield and prepare their positions. Something that is not at all realistic, and creates these gamey absolutes that are generally very unrealistic and hurt immersion.

My ideal solution to this would be to modify the dome of death and give the insurgents something like 10minutes before the coalition would be allowed to leave their main. But, I'm almost certain that modifying the dome of death to change mid-round is hard coded.

So, my workable solution, would be to delay the spawns on ALL coalition assets at the start of the round. Forcing the team to wait and prepare their squads, strategies, or whatever for the first 10 minutes. Of course they would be more than welcome to walk out of the main. But, the lack of transport and armor would hopefully prevent the common rushes we see at the start of the rounds.

I'm trying to think of more ways this delayed start can be enforced/encouraged. Because I know that delayed asset spawn has been suggested before. But, I don't think it has ever been suggested for these reasons in insurgency mode only. If anyone has any other ideas on how this can be accomplished, please post them up.

A fair suggestion, however from the rounds I've played the coalition guys always take their sweet time to get their shit together. If I squadlead on Ins my squad is always first out of the main while everyone else is just sitting there :\

You'd have to delay the spawn on Bomb Cars/Trucks as well otherwise they could just roll in to main and take out an entire 32 player team

Ford_Jam wrote:You'd have to delay the spawn on Bomb Cars/Trucks as well otherwise they could just roll in to main and take out an entire 32 player team

Would you be foolish enough to drive at a main base that the whole team is defending?

The goal of my suggestion is to try and let the Insurgents move their bombcars and IED's out of their main and into a good position before the coalition rushes out with all their vehicles.

I once rushed out of main with 2 HMMVVs... a single bomb car took care of my squad

In my opinion the game is OK as it is... I mean, what advantage does the BLUFOR have? A defencive position near nowhere? Perhaps a single cache or 2?

Rushing in the end does not lead to any important achievement in Insurgency (in AAS that's another story). Most tactical squads wait for the cache to be revealed before striking (taking out one cache should give you enough intel points for the next cache, depending on how many people you kill/arrest).

i like the idea i just dont see anyway of implementing it,,, the only idea i have is to get rid of the 3 minute timer at start of round if you are on insurgent side but i doubt that is possible

badmojo420 wrote:Would you be foolish enough to drive at a main base that the whole team is defending?

The goal of my suggestion is to try and let the Insurgents move their bombcars and IED's out of their main and into a good position before the coalition rushes out with all their vehicles.

Someone without a ticket penalty
People don't defend main. They will be too busy procrastinating on mumble or sitting next to the vehicle spawns so they can beat the other dozen people waiting for the tank on Karbala or Basrah.

badmojo420 wrote:Would you be foolish enough to drive at a main base that the whole team is defending?

it appers you have never tryed to kill the OMG truck with your starting gun. even with an APC its tough.

i realy dont think theres a problem with the current setup. on most maps the BLUFOR main is far enough away from cach locations that you get about 5 minuets before anything happens anyways. and as for korengel...... if your using the jeeps on that map your wasting tickets.

I think best solution can be adding more spawn points

It should be a 5 minute spawn as all they have to do is spawn at their cache then set boby traps. Or spawn at insurgent main take the speeddy dirt bike setting up ieds mines at roads en route to cache and at 10 mins there will be probaly to many becasue you know all of the insurgents ae just goin to tkae the ied kit for waiting for 10 mins have no other action going on so there would probaly too much ieds at improtant points.
and also blufor would be gettin angry waittin at main for 10 mins.

Ford_Jam wrote:Someone without a ticket penalty
People don't defend main. They will be too busy procrastinating on mumble or sitting next to the vehicle spawns so they can beat the other dozen people waiting for the tank on Karbala or Basrah.

Is it any better in the current system? People running around in main deciding which vehicle hasn't already been taken, then 20seconds later a bomb truck drives up to the traffic jam in the main gate and blows up everyone.

Nobody defends main currently, they just get in a drive away as fast as possible.

Mantak08 wrote:it appers you have never tryed to kill the OMG truck with your starting gun. even with an APC its tough.

i realy dont think theres a problem with the current setup. on most maps the BLUFOR main is far enough away from cach locations that you get about 5 minuets before anything happens anyways. and as for korengel...... if your using the jeeps on that map your wasting tickets.

HAT, LAT, & LMGs take out the bombtrucks pretty quickly.

The idea is to make the whole map dangerous for the coalition. Not to postpone their arrival at the caches.

Does it not bother anyone else that at the start of Al Basrah 90% of the coalition vehicles just rush across the bridges without a care in the world?

myles wrote:It should be a 5 minute spawn as all they have to do is spawn at their cache then set boby traps. Or spawn at insurgent main take the speeddy dirt bike setting up ieds mines at roads en route to cache and at 10 mins there will be probaly to many becasue you know all of the insurgents ae just goin to tkae the ied kit for waiting for 10 mins have no other action going on so there would probaly too much ieds at improtant points.
and also blufor would be gettin angry waittin at main for 10 mins.

-That's the whole point. In the real life insurgency the coalition can't patrol the entire country at all times. So when they decide there will be an assault on Basrah or Fallujah, they tell the civilians to leave the area, which lets them roll in and blow 'almost' everything to hell, but it also gives the insurgents some time to prepare for their assault. They setup IEDs, move ammo around into better positions, and basically just setup to defend.

-Blufor could simply walk out of their main if they don't want to wait for a vehicle.

alberto_di_gio wrote:I think best solution can be adding more spawn points

More spawn points for insurgents wouldn't help as much. They would still be instantly rushed by masses of vehicles.

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The whole idea is similar to how air assets have a delayed spawn on maps like Kashan. If they spawned at the start it would be too easy for them to attack the armor columns leaving the enemy main headed towards the first flag. There needs to be a grace period to give the other team a chance to setup proper anti-air support. Just the same, there needs to be a grace period for insurgents to setup proper anti-vehicle support.

badmojo420 wrote:

-That's the whole point. In the real life insurgency the coalition can't patrol the entire country at all times. So when they decide there will be an assault on Basrah or Fallujah, they tell the civilians to leave the area, which lets them roll in and blow 'almost' everything to hell, but it also gives the insurgents some time to prepare for their assault. They setup IEDs, move ammo around into better positions, and basically just setup to defend.

-Blufor could simply walk out of their main if they don't want to wait for a vehicle.

No i meant that there would be like too many ieds mines at postionts like insurgents placing all on the same route and way too many at cahce areas . i mean like there would be too many that it would be unrealistic

myles wrote:No i meant that there would be like too many ieds mines at postionts like insurgents placing all on the same route and way too many at cahce areas . i mean like there would be too many that it would be unrealistic

Yeah, I understood completely what you were saying. And it's my opinion that there are too few IED's with the current setup. It's not until about an hour into the game that people get the streets nicely littered with them. So, I believe giving them a 10minute setup period would speed up this process so the danger would be great right from the start.

I thought there was a 5minute delay for coalition getting their first intel?

thats enough as far as I'm concerned, although teamswappers will kinda screw it up they won't be able to get the entire team going with a rush

I'm happy with the amount of time INS get ingame atm to get ready

The problem I see with a change like this is every road will be IED and a almost guarantees destruction of ever asset leaving the BLUFOR base will happen.

Plus the insurgents already have a head start....defending caches.

[R-CON]Rudd wrote:I thought there was a 5minute delay for coalition getting their first intel?

Yeah, but it does get canceled out by the 3-minute start time, which means there's only two minutes left when the game starts.

TBH I tend to see more of insurgent's rush than Blufor's. The thing is the rush tactics, while the cashe is not revealed yet, is in general bad for blufor. They will fight and die needlessly. Organized teams tend to wait for the cash to show up. Unorganized, on the other hand, just spread out at the beginning meaning even if 6 man squad will spot a possible cash location (because of 20 insurgents coming from one direction) they will likely die. For an insurgent, if he doesn't want to be spotted at the beginning of the round there's a simple advice: avoid main roads leading straight from US base...
On the other hand insurgents already benefit from rush tactics. As it's been said: they can spawn on a cashe at the beginning of the round plus blufor should have really limited intel of it's position till 3 minutes have passed. Imho that's enough as blufor team is usually already having hard time playing this mode when not 'teamplaying' properly.
About the spawn delay for blufor itself:I've played numerous rounds of insurgency and have almost never suffered from lack of time to setup mines/ieds/traps/ move to ambush positions. I mean seriously, in those ~10 minutes there would be almost no point of having a it other than sapper/rpg kit. That's maximum of 32 players, let' say 20 em taking explosives. 10 minutes is a huge amount of time, especially with newly introduced ammo pickups. There would be absolutely no place without a mine/ied. And what has blufor against a mine? 2 combat engineer kits.

All in all: it is good as it is, I see no point of introducing any additional "preparing time' (whatever it might be called, sry for my english ;d) for ins.

It seems like the consensus is that 10minutes is too long and the insurgents would completely block out all the coalition vehicles. I disagree, but alas it's not my decision.

Perhaps a compromise. On Al Basrah, the armor (tank, scim & apcs) could be on a delayed spawn, and only a few light trucks would spawn at the very start. Allowing the trucks to secure a route into the city. So, when the armor spawns, it's not trapped behind a mine field. And there is also the VCP spawn, so the lack of transport wouldn't effect the infantry as much.

And I wouldn't expect the same system to work for every insurgency map. Maps like Korengal don't exactly need this change, it's hard enough to move vehicles around in the first place. But maps like Ramiel, Archer, Basrah, Karbala, etc could use a delay on some of their more powerful assets, including all aircraft.

badmojo420 wrote:Would you be foolish enough to drive at a main base that the whole team is defending?

haha you'd be surprised

i think yiu have a valid suggestion here man, i see where you're coming from. i think 10 mins would be too long though. maybe have it so when the round 'begins' the insurgents don't have the 2:30min delay n just spawn in straight off.

they should get 1 min but OMg trucks and stuff have to wait 1 min to spawn?

Light vehicles like humvees have a 10 minute or less respawn time right? And if used at the beginning of the map this is reduced by three minutes. I would suggest simply having all of the light assets have a single delay like the extra vehicles on Kashan. Bradleys and tanks could spawn right away for initial base defense and the team would have a few minutes to prepare for the light vehicles to spawn in and defend the initial rush. Once ready they would be able to load up and head out instead of running around like chickens.

This of course assumes a minimal level of organization, but it would be at least the same, if not better, for pubbies than the current traffic jam leaving main getting nuked. Organized players would do even better.