Project Reality Forums

This poll doesn't represent the community as a whole and does not sway the DEV's decisions. It only serves as a place to voice your opinions of the new rally point system. And really you can ***** and complain but this is really only a place to express your opinions.

I just cant get used to bags suddenly dissapearing with no reason after a certain timeframe, its also hard to be able to deploy to areas far away from main on any map because firebases are usually in obsecure locations for use by longrange personnel and not frontline infantry.

But maybe thats just me, perhaps people are able to get a ride to the front unlike me, because im a chocolate bar.

I really preferred the old system. Yes there are more firebases on maps, but as soon as the enemy has an idea where it is, they will know where everyone is going to come from. With Rally Points, there's always the unknown you have to worry about. Plus, it added a sense of finality that after you had battled an enemy squad through maybe 2-3 waves, to finally see their rally go down made you feel accomplished.

Also, there may be an "abundance of transportation" on paper, but no matter how hard you try, APC's don't deliver, Helicopters crash, and Jeeps/trucks get left in the open. Firebases are often either not where your squad wants to be, under attack, or far from the action. Every single round I've played on Yamalia and Silent Eagle, I've found myself having to cross over a kilometer to join the battle, multiple times, only to fight for maybe 5 minutes before I have to repeat. That's not gameplay, that's not fun, that's a chore.

The new medic system with the 5 minute wait helps, but there are always situations in which you simply can't get a revive. You've been killed twice in 2 minutes from bad luck, you died on a ladder/water, your body is stuck, they can't find your body, your medic is down, blue medics won't listen, etc.... Rally points help maintain squad cohesion. In previous versions, squads were more likely to stick together when they'd move their way from rally point drop to rally point drop. Now there's no real motivation to stay with your squad, from a spawning perspective.

PR is about squad warfare, plain and simple. It might have great vehicle battles, cool maps, new guns, increased immersion, but at it's heart it's still squad vs squad infantry combat, because that's what win's battles, and that's what is fun and never repetitive. The Rally point helps the squad, and keeps at least some gameplay elements in what in the end is just a video game.

Love it, but then i loved .9's change and feel this is a happy medium between the two.

I don't like that the SL need to stay back with a guy as a mobile spawn point as in PR 0.5. The SL should lead not stay back.

As an avid squad leader, i lead all the time still.

.9 meant you could lead fully, previous version still put to much emphasis on SL as a spawn and now its a good happy medium.

'[R-DEV wrote:CodeRedFox;1321446']

Your opinion on the new 0.91 rally point change?

This poll doesn't represent the community as a whole and does not sway the DEV's decisions. It only serves as a place to voice your opinions of the new rally point system. And really you can ***** and complain but this is really only a place to express your opinions.

Keep it civil, keep it relevant, keep it sourced.

Or we bring the pain

gazzthompson wrote:As an avid squad leader, i lead all the time still.

.9 meant you could lead fully, previous version still put to much emphasis on SL as a spawn and now its a good happy medium.

.9 didn't mean you could fully lead. It was a major step down from 0.87 for the SL because it basically meant you couldn't lead your squad from the front (not literally in front btw). If you think 0.9 was a step up from 0.87 for the SL, than you are basically admitting the RP was useless since there is no way it benefitted a SL personally or his job in anyway.

0.91 is definately an improvement over .9, but 10 minutes is still a long time, even in PR time. I thought at first it would fly by because of PR time, but when you think about it, most games last generally around 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours. So that gives you around 6-9 spawns in total. That's not many at all when you think about it and the 10 minutes spaced inbetween them because the average player will die around 5-10+ times during a game. And a lot of those spawns will be used for new players who join your squad mid game. Should you deny them a respawn?

I agree with gazz: happy medium.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:9 didn't mean you could fully lead. It was a major step down from 0.87 for the SL because it basically meant you couldn't lead your squad from the front (not literally in front btw). If you think 0.9 was a step up from 0.87 for the SL, than you are basically admitting the RP was useless since there is no way it benefitted a SL personally or his job in anyway.

0.91 is definately an improvement over .9, but 10 minutes is still a long time, even in PR time. I thought at first it would fly by because of PR time, but when you think about it, most games last generally around 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours. So that gives you around 6-9 spawns in total. That's not many at all when you think about it and the 10 minutes spaced inbetween them because the average player will die around 5-10+ times during a game. And a lot of those spawns will be used for new players who join your squad mid game. Should you deny them a respawn?

First paragraph: don't really understand the logic behind that

Second paragraph: I find 10 mins to be perfect time, if you need to set an RP the chances are you have been engaged and lost some guys and have retreated. You then should be avoiding contact for 10 mins, which IMO is not long considering you should be a good distance from the enemy as you have lost the initial fight and considering a new attack plan/calling for backup/GTFO as the enemy is outnumbering/gunning you. And that 10 mins wait is under the assumption that there isnt a firebase nearby which is within 10 mins walk (and 10 mins walk in game is alot of the map)

As for new playings joining the game the most extrema case is he will wait 10 mins to spawn , assuming you just that second set an RP.The most likely he will have to wait 3-4~ mins for it to recharge or a walk from a nearby firebase will beat the recharge time, or even more likely its already recharged.

Web_cole wrote:I agree with gazz: happy medium.

same here

I lead my squad by example, by enforcing my tactics and removing anyone from the squad who refuses to work with everyone else, I don't need nor want a RP spawn point to be a constant fixture in that endevour, so rearming off FBs and recharing after 10mins is fine for me.

Love it. Though as a constant squad leader I preferred version without 10 min rearm time. Don't get me wrong. It's good idea to satisfy people but I'm one of these guys who liked first beta the most - no rallies at all. There were more logistics going on.

Personally I like having permanent RPs. But this compromise is definitely a good thing - it allows for a few times a round where you can get the squad back in action without making things too arcadey for the realism fans.

Zombie waves of death are something I personally enjoy a lot, it means more firefights therefore more action, and less walking. But there are a lot of people who prefer temporary rallies so I guess it's a good halfway point.

manligheten wrote:I don't like that the SL need to stay back with a guy as a mobile spawn point as in PR 0.5. The SL should lead not stay back.

I never lead from the front as a SL, you should be sending your team forward or 3 guys as your fire team and 3 guys (including you) as your support team.

Its funny now that we went through version of....really no rally points and now I've noticed player being much more conservative about staying alive and rally points only being use when having to regroup. The drop a rally every 50m traveling spawn points is gone. Which is a great thing to know when a enemy goes down hes down.

The gamey attitude about RP is much less about a spawn points and used as a regrouping option instead.

I voted love it, but wouldn't mind it being longer than 10 minutes to reload.

I do like that it is no longer tied to a FoB to reload, and that switching officer kits doesn't reload it. It makes it into an occasional tool to reorganize instead of a fountain of zombie soldiers.

Don’t love it! That’s too strong. But it’s the best arrangement so far.

ZAP44 wrote:Don’t love it! That’s too strong.

care to elaborate?

Fess|3-5| wrote:I really preferred the old system. Yes there are more firebases on maps, but as soon as the enemy has an idea where it is, they will know where everyone is going to come from. With Rally Points, there's always the unknown you have to worry about. Plus, it added a sense of finality that after you had battled an enemy squad through maybe 2-3 waves, to finally see their rally go down made you feel accomplished.

Also, there may be an "abundance of transportation" on paper, but no matter how hard you try, APC's don't deliver, Helicopters crash, and Jeeps/trucks get left in the open. Firebases are often either not where your squad wants to be, under attack, or far from the action. Every single round I've played on Yamalia and Silent Eagle, I've found myself having to cross over a kilometer to join the battle, multiple times, only to fight for maybe 5 minutes before I have to repeat. That's not gameplay, that's not fun, that's a chore.

The new medic system with the 5 minute wait helps, but there are always situations in which you simply can't get a revive. You've been killed twice in 2 minutes from bad luck, you died on a ladder/water, your body is stuck, they can't find your body, your medic is down, blue medics won't listen, etc.... Rally points help maintain squad cohesion. In previous versions, squads were more likely to stick together when they'd move their way from rally point drop to rally point drop. Now there's no real motivation to stay with your squad, from a spawning perspective.

PR is about squad warfare, plain and simple. It might have great vehicle battles, cool maps, new guns, increased immersion, but at it's heart it's still squad vs squad infantry combat, because that's what win's battles, and that's what is fun and never repetitive. The Rally point helps the squad, and keeps at least some gameplay elements in what in the end is just a video game.

My sentiments exactly.

This is a great game and obviously the name implies a certain realism, but I always envisaged that said realism would manifest itself in available weaponry, teamwork, tactics, maps etc, rather than in seemingly endless walking and waiting and time spent staring at a black screen. These things would be (and were) fine in previous builds as they were a smaller part of the overall picture. But I defy anyone to tell me they enjoy waiting around (at main, to spawn, to be revived) or walking very far for what is in reality a significant percentage of game time.

Now don't get me wrong, in an ideal world the current changes would probably serve only to improve the game universally, but from the perspective of a non-clan affiliated player, you might stumble (either as a SL or SM) into a productive, cohesive sqd or server once every 2 or 3 rounds, and that's being rather optimistic. This leaves literally hours of below average "play" that could be improved by reinstating the previous rally system, and therefore providing a sort of comfort blanket of cohesion, or maybe decreasing the spawn time of light vehicles.

This is a game folks, and I gain nothing from doing repeated 2km runs in a virtual world, have you ever heard of "virtual jogging 2009" by Ubisoft? No, and there's a very good reason for that.

Sorry if this has turned ranty, but I'm not sure what direction the devs want the game to go in; the logical extreme or a fun middle ground?

burkesooty

BurkeSooty wrote:My sentiments exactly.

This is a great game and obviously the name implies a certain realism, but I always envisaged that said realism would manifest itself in available weaponry, teamwork, tactics, maps etc, rather than in seemingly endless walking and waiting and time spent staring at a black screen. These things would be (and were) fine in previous builds as they were a smaller part of the overall picture. But I defy anyone to tell me they enjoy waiting around (at main, to spawn, to be revived) or walking very far for what is in reality a significant percentage of game time.

Now don't get me wrong, in an ideal world the current changes would probably serve only to improve the game universally, but from the perspective of a non-clan affiliated player, you might stumble (either as a SL or SM) into a productive, cohesive sqd or server once every 2 or 3 rounds, and that's being rather optimistic. This leaves literally hours of below average "play" that could be improved by reinstating the previous rally system, and therefore providing a sort of comfort blanket of cohesion, or maybe decreasing the spawn time of light vehicles.

This is a game folks, and I gain nothing from doing repeated 2km runs in a virtual world, have you ever heard of "virtual jogging 2009" by Ubisoft? No, and there's a very good reason for that.

Sorry if this has turned ranty, but I'm not sure what direction the devs want the game to go in; the logical extreme or a fun middle ground?

burkesooty

alot would argue this is the fun middle ground, the community on the hole failed to adapt to the .9 system (hence this change) and the DEVs dont want to have the old RPs back. I never find my self walking as far as people say when they try and counter these changes... 2km? i cant even remember the last time i walked 2km in game. So no, i dont enjoy walking from main.... but then i never have. on average i would say the max i walk in game between contacts is about 400m.

edit: i remember my last 2km~ walk, was ages ago and was crewing a scimitar on basrah , we got disabled so me and my crewman just walked back to main. took less than 10 mins.

[R-DEV]CodeRedFox wrote:I never lead from the front as a SL, you should be sending your team forward or 3 guys as your fire team and 3 guys (including you) as your support team.

Its funny now that we went through version of....really no rally points and now I've noticed player being much more conservative about staying alive and rally points only being use when having to regroup. The drop a rally every 50m traveling spawn points is gone. Which is a great thing to know when a enemy goes down hes down.

The gamey attitude about RP is much less about a spawn points and used as a regrouping option instead.

I rather prefer 1+5, lmg as the support group, but as the sl can't perma-die now you have to stay back, as in PR0.5. I like the "gamey" feeling of the RP as they give you the illusion of that you are facing a whole platoon when actually you are facing just 6 to 12 guys. If there is some spawn system that's gamey in PR it is the epipen struck to a .50 cal decapitated guy makes him respawn on the place. That's gamey respawn, effectively rendering any guerrilla or needlesting tactics useless.
I've noticed a huge degeneration of "squadplay" since the RP got nerfed. You don't really need a squad anymore in the same way other than grabbing kits. Of course, it isn't just the RP nerf that in my opinion degenerated squadplay (the reason why I thought PR is fun). The lmg spawnable with zoom in 2 man groups rendered the 6 man squad much less important and imbalanced the game. Now you have to have 4 guys in the group but as kit stay for 5 minutes on the ground it doesn't really make a difference.
To win in PR now you need good armor and transports and good FOB builders. The infantry doesn't really matter in the same way they used to. They are just rank and file caping flags by their presence rather than skill and tactic. That's maybe how some people want it, but I like playing infantry and thus it is boring to have such a diminished role.
Empirically I find squadsmembers much more reluctant to talk on voip and interact with one another than before. The overall mood on the forum more whiny. More ragequitting players and extreme circulation of squadmembers. More common for admins to whine on players to follow rules (i.e. a kafka-ish setup of does and don't concerning doing too effective things, like someone would care in a war). All that I've noticed and a dedicate that mainly to the nerf of RPs, and secondly to the spawn LMG and imbalanced/big maps.
I like 0.91 RP is better than 0.9, but that's just because I really disliked 0.9 RP.